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Discussion Starter #1
I posted before about the problem with my engine. Anyways, I have a 2003 325Ci manual and a week ago my engine shut down and the car wouldn't move. I had it towed to the BMW dealer and after 5 days of diagnosing they found out that the pistons were shot. The dealer also told me that the computer said that the car was reved up too much (redlined) and that's what caused the problem. Now, I don't usually redline my car, maybe once in a blue moon, but still, it's a brand new car and it should be able to take a few redlining. Therefore, the dealer told me that the warranty doesn't cover it. What should I do? Please help.
 

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Very simple..it's called a 'break in' period which I think you didn't follow..3 rules tp follow:1 don't go too fast (above 65 speed limit), 2 don't rev too high, and 3 don't run on cold engine tempertures..

Other break in steps are typical..upto 500 miles, keep the rev under 3000 rpm..upto 700 miles, keep the rev under 3500rpm..Upto 900 miles, keep the rev under 4000rpm..after that keep the rev under 5000 rpm until you hit 1500miles..after 1500miles, you can do anything you want!!

Good luck dude!!
 

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looks like you need to get a new motor my friend. that is gonna cost ya. i am not sure but you may be able to get the motor from the M3
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Yeah, but the first guy told me that it was the factory's fault and the piston heads weren't damaged so the problem couldn't have come from reving the engine to high.
 

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How good are the ACS engines??
 

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Originally posted by mikefliggity@Aug 4 2003, 07:22 PM
Yeah, but the first guy told me that it was the factory's fault and the piston heads weren't damaged so the problem couldn't have come from reving the engine to high.
But did you follow the break in rules?? Yes or no??
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Originally posted by Ski+Aug 4 2003, 05:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ski @ Aug 4 2003, 05:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-mikefliggity@Aug 4 2003, 07:22 PM
Yeah, but the first guy told me that it was the factory's fault and the piston heads weren't damaged so the problem couldn't have come from reving the engine to high.
But did you follow the break in rules?? Yes or no?? [/b][/quote]
To tell you the truth i dont remember but i think so
 

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Originally posted by mikefliggity+Aug 4 2003, 05:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (mikefliggity @ Aug 4 2003, 05:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2003, 05:47 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-mikefliggity
@Aug 4 2003, 07:22 PM
Yeah, but the first guy told me that it was the factory's fault and the piston heads weren't damaged so the problem couldn't have come from reving the engine to high.

But did you follow the break in rules?? Yes or no??
To tell you the truth i dont remember but i dont think so [/b][/quote]
i dont think its fair for bmw to blame you, every time i go to a bmw dealership to test drive cars the dealer always keeps the engine pegged on the rev limiter to show off the cars power, performance, etc. so if you bought the car off the lot, even if it had under 50miles, it couldve been abuse from a couple test drives that caused engine failure that early on. one time i went to test drive a 330Ci with my dad that had 10miles on the odometer and the salesman still didnt hesitate to redline 1st 2nd and 3rd.
 

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That's a very good point MrM3 but hard to prove at this point..If I was you Mike I'd call BMW regional representative and prove your case and tell them that the sales team didn't inform you on how the correct way to break in your ride..if that indeed is the problem..nobody is 100% sure on the internet, this is just theories posted here.. :thumbs
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Originally posted by MrM3+Aug 4 2003, 06:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MrM3 @ Aug 4 2003, 06:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2003, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2003, 05:47 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-mikefliggity
@Aug 4 2003, 07:22 PM
Yeah, but the first guy told me that it was the factory's fault and the piston heads weren't damaged so the problem couldn't have come from reving the engine to high.

But did you follow the break in rules?? Yes or no??

To tell you the truth i dont remember but i dont think so
i dont think its fair for bmw to blame you, every time i go to a bmw dealership to test drive cars the dealer always keeps the engine pegged on the rev limiter to show off the cars power, performance, etc. so if you bought the car off the lot, even if it had under 50miles, it couldve been abuse from a couple test drives that caused engine failure that early on. one time i went to test drive a 330Ci with my dad that had 10miles on the odometer and the salesman still didnt hesitate to redline 1st 2nd and 3rd. [/b][/quote]
o wow. I'm going to get a lawyer if the dealer decides to void my warranty. This is ridiculous, the car is brand new and also how can the pistons break by reving the engine too much, i just don't understand that.
 

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Here is some good info

You have two opposite functions to perform at break-in:
1) Apply enough pressure to the piston rings (via high-load) to have them expand and match the cylinder bore (in fact, they both wear a bit and fit each other). This also applies to valve to valve-seat interfaces and all plain bearings.
2) Avoid excessive heat that would cause distortion that will prevent these parts from mating.
BMW advise not to exceed 5,000rpm for the first 600 miles, for good reason, to prevent heat-seizures or cylinder scoring. This allows you to travel at around 75mph in top gear, throttle on - throttle off, which is fine for breaking in and doesn't require too much throttle restraint. My neighbour who is a mechanic for BMW, said if someone admitted they'd been red-lining it before 600 miles had been covered, they wouldn't be covered for any warranty claims for engine problems. Surely it's best to follow what BMW advise, after all it's only for 1,200 miles total before you can really wring its neck, if that's the way you wish to ride.
The main idea is to exercise the engine like you would a muscle. Build up slowly and don't do the same thing for too long. Yes, you want to keep engine revs down and increase gradually, but also you want to run a variety of engine and gearbox routines. Run City traffic for half an hour then country lanes for a couple of hours, then finish with maybe 15 minutes of mixed steady and fast motorway. Repeat until you've done the miles. Running motorways at 100 kph to do the distance will shorten engine life almost as much as not running in at all.
Here is an interesting statement from Jeremy Hall, a principal engineer in Honda's engine design department. He is quoted (page 61 of the July issue of Popular Science) as stating that the stress on an engine at 9,000 rpm is double that at 8,000 rpm. Something to think about as you wind your engine to redline.
 

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of course RPM's differ from each engine. but set guidlines are there for a reason
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Originally posted by lwebb12@Aug 4 2003, 06:28 PM
of course RPM's differ from each engine. but set guidlines are there for a reason
thanks for the info. i don't use the car too much though and i dont remember reving it during the break in period
 

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well good luck in your battle
 

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hopefully I can provide some inspiration. Having been a BMW dealer tech for many years, I have run into problems like this and have seen others as well. Heres the game plan: take a deep breath, take a stiff drink :gulp and walk into the dealer and give em hell :cya . Get BMW North America involved and be persistent :poke . If that doesn't work, "go to the mattress" :guns
Seriously though, you didn't mention exactly what the dealer said happened to the pistons. Did they give you any more explanation? When did the diag show the over rev was? If they can't tie the over rev to when the engine quit, then there's not much of a leg to stand on. When did the engine shut down? did it just die one day out of the blue or did it shut down after running the crap out of it? Did it smoke or knock? Typically on an over-rev the valves take a beating by the pistons. This is usually evident by marks on top of the pistons and bent valves. However, if the motor is not properly "broken in" , an engine typically doesn't allow the rings to "seat" creating excessive blow by and oil consumption with an eventual loss of power and performance and more. With the motor torn down and PROPERLY inspected by a qualified technician, it can easily be determined what happened and how. Have the regional rep for your area from BMW NA meet with you and the service manager at the dealer in front of the car and disassembled engine and stand your ground. Ask to see the damage and ASK QUESTIONS. I certainly hope you're not trying to pull one over on the dealer :do-me and you didn't in fact abuse the motor. If you can't change their minds, give 'em the good ole :f-u and pay the bill. Good luck !!
 

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STOP THE PRESS... I just went back and searched for your previous thread and saw your original post. I think some body is....um... :crackhead :

I have a 2003 BMW 325Ci manual. Last Saturday I was taking a turn and the car stalled. When I turned it back on the rpms would stay idle at 1500. The rpms wouldnt go up when I gave it gas. I put it in first gear and tried to go but the whole car would shake. The check engine sign came on, the traction control came on, and the brake light came on. 10 minutes later after turning the car off and back on again the rpms dropped to normal and the car was driving fine but the check engine sign stayed on. Then the next day when i turn on the car the check engine sign was off and the car was driving normally. Has this happened to anyone. Should i take my car to the dealer? I was really pissed of. Also I bought this car in Germany. Any input is appreciated.
This is very interesting. Did you explain this to the dealer/technician? Was the car up to par on performance when it restarted and was "running normally"? Did the engine ever run rough? Had you just ran the car hard or anything just before you took the turn? Did the problem ever happen again? Did the dealer check the entire fault memory? If it is possible, have them do that right away and demand the print outs. If you can get them and share them with me, I could possibly help you. If you've got internal engine problems, the problems will not come and go like electrical problems and such... ESPECIALLY if you have bent valves or even broken pistons. Something smells fishy here. Where are you located? If you're close, I'll go with you to the dealer :eek:uch . BOLLOCKS! , something isn't right. Make them explain to you their logic , there isn't any. There's probably some jackass rookie punk kid who doesn't know what he's doing trying to stick it to ya.
Get ahold of BMW North America right away and have the rep involved. Keep me posted and let me know if you can get any fault code print outs
my email: [email protected]
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Originally posted by EXtech@Aug 5 2003, 11:18 PM
hopefully I can provide some inspiration. Having been a BMW dealer tech for many years, I have run into problems like this and have seen others as well. Heres the game plan: take a deep breath, take a stiff drink :gulp and walk into the dealer and give em hell :cya . Get BMW North America involved and be persistent :poke . If that doesn't work, "go to the mattress" :guns
Seriously though, you didn't mention exactly what the dealer said happened to the pistons. Did they give you any more explanation? When did the diag show the over rev was? If they can't tie the over rev to when the engine quit, then there's not much of a leg to stand on. When did the engine shut down? did it just die one day out of the blue or did it shut down after running the crap out of it? Did it smoke or knock? Typically on an over-rev the valves take a beating by the pistons. This is usually evident by marks on top of the pistons and bent valves. However, if the motor is not properly "broken in" , an engine typically doesn't allow the rings to "seat" creating excessive blow by and oil consumption with an eventual loss of power and performance and more. With the motor torn down and PROPERLY inspected by a qualified technician, it can easily be determined what happened and how. Have the regional rep for your area from BMW NA meet with you and the service manager at the dealer in front of the car and disassembled engine and stand your ground. Ask to see the damage and ASK QUESTIONS. I certainly hope you're not trying to pull one over on the dealer :do-me and you didn't in fact abuse the motor. If you can't change their minds, give 'em the good ole :f-u and pay the bill. Good luck !!
Thanks a lot bro. Great info. Well, today a representative came from BMW-NA and checked out the car. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to be there because I'm on a 1 hour recall. The dealer said that I should call tom when they will have the final answer. If they say that it's not covered by the warranty, I'm going to first call the dealer and tell them that I'm not paying anything for the car and that I'm getting a lawyer and the press involved. Then, I'm gonna call BMW-NA and tell them the same thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Originally posted by EXtech@Aug 5 2003, 11:47 PM
STOP THE PRESS... I just went back and searched for your previous thread and saw your original post. I think some body is....um... :crackhead :

I have a 2003 BMW 325Ci manual. Last Saturday I was taking a turn and the car stalled. When I turned it back on the rpms would stay idle at 1500. The rpms wouldnt go up when I gave it gas. I put it in first gear and tried to go but the whole car would shake. The check engine sign came on, the traction control came on, and the brake light came on. 10 minutes later after turning the car off and back on again the rpms dropped to normal and the car was driving fine but the check engine sign stayed on. Then the next day when i turn on the car the check engine sign was off and the car was driving normally. Has this happened to anyone. Should i take my car to the dealer? I was really pissed of. Also I bought this car in Germany. Any input is appreciated.
This is very interesting. Did you explain this to the dealer/technician? Was the car up to par on performance when it restarted and was "running normally"? Did the engine ever run rough? Had you just ran the car hard or anything just before you took the turn? Did the problem ever happen again? Did the dealer check the entire fault memory? If it is possible, have them do that right away and demand the print outs. If you can get them and share them with me, I could possibly help you. If you've got internal engine problems, the problems will not come and go like electrical problems and such... ESPECIALLY if you have bent valves or even broken pistons. Something smells fishy here. Where are you located? If you're close, I'll go with you to the dealer :eek:uch . BOLLOCKS! , something isn't right. Make them explain to you their logic , there isn't any. There's probably some jackass rookie punk kid who doesn't know what he's doing trying to stick it to ya.
Get ahold of BMW North America right away and have the rep involved. Keep me posted and let me know if you can get any fault code print outs
my email: [email protected]
No, the car was driven normally before that happened. As I was taking the turn, it stalled and when I turned it on again a couple of lights went on the dashboard (can't excatly remember which ones right now). I tried to go but when i completely let go of the clutch, the whole car would shake hard and at idle the rpms stayed at 1300. The car wasn't driven hard before and it was an easy turn after the light turned green. 20 mins later everything went back to normal. I never mentioned this to the dealer because it is very unlikely they will believe me.
 

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well that sure as hell doesn't seem like internal engine problems. You MUST tell this to the techs and BMW rep right away. That is crucial information. Like I mentioned before, get the fault codes and relay them to me. I betcha I could tell you right away what's up. If not I could at least give you some fire power. Good luck!
 

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..and of course it will be covered by warranty because it's nothing you did. It's not a damaged engine from over revving.
 
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