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#1 (permalink) Old 04-13-2004, 03:43 PM
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Just found out about the new Forum...so I would think this post would be good for this forum. I wrote this review a couple months back.

This is for the GruppeM Ram Charger (Carbon Fiber) for a STOCK E46 323Ci:

I purchased the GruppeM from Renn-Sport. Great service and very speedy! (thanks sam!) though it was the longest wait ever, UPS ground, 7 days! I got the Carbon Fiber instead of the Carbon Kevlar for two reasons: 1) the kevlar would have taken an additional 4-6 weeks for delivery and 2) the kevlar has yellow and green in it; though the weaves look outstanding, the green and yellow doesn't fit my engine's motif.

On a late winter night, Mr. UPS came at the end of the day! Opened the box and my first reaction was "wow, sooo soo beautiful" The carbon fiber sparkles under the light. Soon the wrapping was opened and once you feel it, you will notice its build quality: perfection.

Scrambling upstairs to my room where my computer is, i pull up the installation instructions from renn-sport. Install instructions Quite simply the easiest thing ive done for a long time. In a matter of minutes, the assembly was done, ready to go on the car.

My friend/roomate wanted to help install the baby. So we went out and opened the hood. Again following renn-sport's instructions: two 10mm bolts off, unclip the MAF, disconnect the kidney air conduit and voila, the OEM airbox was out.

One problem I had was the location and removal of the headlight vent. Since the instructions were for the 330, I presumed the vent did not come in the 323 since I could not find it. So I continued on.

Popped the GruppeM in, connect the MAF, tightened a few screws, done! The mounting bracket was not used here since 1) the instructions says it was not needed and 2) once you install it, you can see its very secured without the bracket. It was one of the easiest things I've ever done to my car! mind you it was late at night and it was coooold.

There was a short period after the install, where we just admired the engine bay. Ok on to the engine start!! YAY

Started the car; very normal. No difference. Friend told me to rev, so I did. Our faces smiled. The sound is amazing! Theres no words to describe it. ROAR with a hint of HISSING. The intake has changed my car's image, to an average sounding car to a roaring beast. You just cant get enough of the sound (atleast I cant get enough of it).

The sound is generally normal under 3000RPMs, at this range, all you hear is a very very faint hissing sound. Almost non-existant. Pass 3000RPMs, the thing screams.

Performance wise: you can actually feel the difference, it may be different for other models, say the 330, but in the 323, you can really feel the difference. I believe it's the throttle response time; the response time has shortened.

I've heard the design on the intake is second to none. The specially designed shape of the carbon fiber heat shield forces air into the chamber where air is focused to one point which enters the engine. The kidney air inlet channel (which used to be the source of the air for the stock airbox) is now a cooler for the heat shield; the opening of the kidney air conduit is directly next to the GruppeM intake. Excellent design IMO

Retail for the GruppeM intake is somewhere around $700. Renn-Sport had a special for these little babies..around $470.

I would definatly recommend this to anyone who wants the best of the best. I must say for an intake, it is pricey, but to me, just the phenomenal sound this thing produces is worth every penny, not forgetting the look and on par if not superior performance.

UPDATE
After a couple months of use...you cant get tired of the sound! The weather was starting to warm up so I tried gunning it with the windows down...there was alot more hissing than I expected. But after 3500RPMs, the 'roar' totally takes over the hiss.

Sound in the engine bay vs sound from within the cabin is 100% different. THe engine bay sounds more like an electronic air type contraption with a nice intake growl. Inside the cabin (inside the car while in motion) is a totally different sound. It seriously sounds like a roaring beast.

I was driving with my brother (i in my car and he in his M roadster) We were side by side moving and we both gunned it. He swears my intake was audible (at a good volume too) from within his car...which to me is pretty impressive.

Performance wise...ive eaten Celica GTS with ease, and raced a 2000 328i 5spd w/ a bad start and was like 1/4 car lengths behind. Highway performance was much better. Example: 70mph in 5th gear around 2900RPMs, downshift to 3rd gear to about 5000RPMs and you are off...actually pulls a bit usually it doesnt with the stock airbox and the sound...oh the sound

Here are sound samples: (NOTE: this is from the engine bay, not in the car)
Standard: http://userpages.umbc.edu/~andyhsu1/...%20Outside.mp3
GruppeM: http://userpages.umbc.edu/~andyhsu1/Intake...M%20Outside.mp3

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#2 (permalink) Old 07-09-2004, 09:37 AM
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sweet, maybe its just the computer speakers, but it does hiss quite a bit.
sounds mean though.

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#3 (permalink) Old 07-09-2004, 11:21 AM
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wow this just resurfaced..

if you havent heard, i have two more sound clips. This time inside the car. Which sounds much different

http://userpages.umbc.edu/~andyhsu1/Intake...M-Window_Up.mp3 (windows up)
http://userpages.umbc.edu/~andyhsu1/Intake...Window_Down.mp3 (windows down)
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#4 (permalink) Old 07-10-2004, 12:09 PM
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Great review Woobie. Thanks for the article and sound clip. This is a very hot topic amongst forum members, and I will be sure to direct them to this review for more info.

I too have been contemplating the addition of such and am seriously considering the CAI from Dinan, any reason you chose the GruppeM over it?

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#5 (permalink) Old 07-10-2004, 01:02 PM
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to my knowledge, the Dinan is more expensive (when i was looking for a CAI, Dinan required an aditional $300 for software for the $400 intake)

THe gruppeM is prob the easiest intake you will ever install. 10min tops to install whereas the Dinan requires atleast 45mins (bumper removal required)

GruppeM looks better...no question about it.

Finally, sound wise, from my experience and others the gruppeM is the loudest and most pleasent out of all the intakes out there.
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#6 (permalink) Old 07-10-2004, 03:01 PM
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hMM..gOOD REVIEW...so is the extra 300$ for the shark or do you still have to shark it afterwards....

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
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#7 (permalink) Old 07-10-2004, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DeefNDorf@Jul 10 2004, 04:41 PM
hMM..gOOD REVIEW...so is the extra 300$ for the shark or do you still have to shark it afterwards....
the shark injector is the software. it is not required for the gruppeM but highly recommended.

i for one havent done it yet...but i will shark my car real soon
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#8 (permalink) Old 07-12-2004, 02:55 PM
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hey woobie,

I know that you and I had this conversation before (about 6 months ago).
I love your reviews, your pictures are great, and the GruppeM looks fantastic. No disagreement from me there.

I don't doubt you when you say that the GruppeM sounds better and gives you better performance. You would know. You drive it.
But I would argue that the sound and better performance are because the GruppeM is using a less restrictive air filter element than the stock BMW filter. So your engine can suck air into it with less restriction.

However, I would also argue that the performance is NOT because of Colder Air or a Ram Air effect. Here is why...

Unless there is another part of the GruppeM I can't see from your pictures, it looks like the front of the GruppeM is right up behind the driver's side headlight. So it is sucking air from inside of the engine compartment.
If we compare this to stock, the air would be coming from the twin kidney grilles into the plenum and then routed toward the filter casing. Certainly the air coming in from the front of the car is cooler than the air being sucked from behind the headlight.

On your setup, while the OEM air intake is blowing directly on your heatshield ( I would agree this would cool it to some degree) it can't be cooler than the original set up where that air was going straight to the engine.


Secondly,
Regarding the Ram Air effect of a GruppeM, again, unless there is something I can't see, there is no Ram Air effect. Ram Air is when the intake uses the speed of the car, and the design of the intake, to compress the air as it is entering the intake and engine. Ram Air only works at higher speed (essentially, pushing air from the front, while the engine sucks from the rear). Ram Air can also only work if the air hitting the front of the intake is relatively unobstructed. The opening of the GruppeM looks like it is right up behind the headlight= no Ram Air effect.

So, my bet is that your increased power and better sound is the result of a more freely flowing air intake filter element, and the megaphone shape of the GruppeM which amplifies that less restrictive sound.

Again, I love the GruppeM's look. And I believe you when you say it is worth it. I just don't believe that it makes the air colder or that provides a Ram Air effect.

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#9 (permalink) Old 07-14-2004, 09:39 AM
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the air being sucked in is from behind the headlight, yes you are correct on that. But what you may not know is that behind that area there is a special air 'pocket'. Source of cold air for the intake is in this air pocket.

And if you take a look at the GruppeM's heatshield, it is shapped as a funnel...(well the inside mostly). You can kinda see it on the outside; the opening of the intake is wider than the other side where the MAF connects to.
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#10 (permalink) Old 07-14-2004, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
the air being sucked in is from behind the headlight, yes you are correct on that. But what you may not know is that behind that area there is a special air 'pocket'. Source of cold air for the intake is in this air pocket.
where does the air in the air pocket come from? I would think that the original air intake behind the grill that is blowing air on the GruppeM is also supplying air to the air pocket.

If that is the case, then I wouldn't think that air is any cooler than the air that was coming from the original air intake and feeding the original stock air filter.

So, I would say the air still isn't colder than it was with the OEM intake/filter.


Quote:
And if you take a look at the GruppeM's heatshield, it is shapped as a funnel...(well the inside mostly). You can kinda see it on the outside; the opening of the intake is wider than the other side where the MAF connects to.
I agree that the GruppeM is shaped like a funnel. But to get a Ram Air effect, you have to "Ram" air into the front of it.
Imagine that you took out your headlight assembly and you had the front of the GruppeM in the direct path of oncoming air. Assuming that the aerodynamics of the car didn't push the air over the car, then you would have a Ram Air effect. The faster you went the more air would be rammed into the GruppeM funnel. But all Ram systems, to be truly effective, need direct access to oncoming air.

Again, just talking not fighting.

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#11 (permalink) Old 07-14-2004, 01:06 PM
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from my experience and from others...that is all the info i have collected.

and as long as it benefits, i cant complain (better looks, better sound, better milage, and better performance)
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#12 (permalink) Old 08-03-2004, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jaavaajoe@Jul 14 2004, 11:20 AM
where does the air in the air pocket come from? I would think that the original air intake behind the grill that is blowing air on the GruppeM is also supplying air to the air pocket.

If that is the case, then I wouldn't think that air is any cooler than the air that was coming from the original air intake and feeding the original stock air filter.

So, I would say the air still isn't colder than it was with the OEM intake/filter.


I agree that the GruppeM is shaped like a funnel. But to get a Ram Air effect, you have to "Ram" air into the front of it.
Imagine that you took out your headlight assembly and you had the front of the GruppeM in the direct path of oncoming air. Assuming that the aerodynamics of the car didn't push the air over the car, then you would have a Ram Air effect. The faster you went the more air would be rammed into the GruppeM funnel. But all Ram systems, to be truly effective, need direct access to oncoming air.

Again, just talking not fighting.
Sorry to bring this back up from the dead... but.. here's the answers to that..

all pics taken from rennsports site.. all credit to them.. i don't work for them or anything.. just purchase stuff from them.. anyway.. here goes..

The GruppeM does recieve cooler air and gets it from 2 main points.

The "funnel" design of the intake.. i really don't know if they did that for a "ram" effect or not.. either way.. the design isolates the intake from the rest of the engine bay.. it is effectively, a heat shield.

The first main source of air, like mentioned above, is from behind the headlights. As mentioned, the 323 doesn't have the duct there. However, the 330 (dunno about 325) does have a duct leading from the headlight into the stock airbox. It is one of two factory air inlets used by the 3 series. It is a high pressure and consistant source of air.





The second main source of air is from the fog/brake duct. There is also a good sized duct just above the ducts that has a cover over it. Many people remove this cover. It's about a 1.5x4.0 inch rectangular duct. I'm not positive on this, as I have an mtek-II front bumper, and only seen pictures and reviews of people removing the cover (sold my old e36 with ACS Type I kit and got a ZHP.. more on this later..) .. basically the entire area shown in this picture is encased within the gruppem heatshield and the intake is therefore isolated from engine bay.. but this same brake/fog duct is non existant on the mtek-II front.... you can see the screwdriver handle pushed threw showing the location



with that in mind, like I just said, I now drive a ZHP that does have a gruppem. However, i don't think the gruppem designers had the mtek-ii bumper in mind when they designed the intake. There are 3 sources for the intake to get air on the mtek-ii front. First is from behind the headlight like others. The other two are very small. One is a small hole on the bottom of the bumper, which I think is actually intended for water drainage. The third is another hole near that second hole, however, there is a huge bolt smack in the middle. CUrrently, i'm in the process of creating new intake ducting for the mtek-II front and will post a DIY when i complete it... it may be as simple as cutting through the brake ducts or something nicer that looks similar to the Active Autoworkes ram air intake for the M5..

hope this helps..
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#13 (permalink) Old 08-03-2004, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
The GruppeM does recieve cooler air and gets it from 2 main points.
ACS, when you say "cooler" air, what do you mean? How is the air any "cooler/colder" than it was with the original factory air intake?
The original factory air intake was already a "cold air intake."

Quote:
The second main source of air is from the fog/brake duct. There is also a good sized duct just above the ducts that has a cover over it. Many people remove this cover.
I thought about doing this too. Taking off the covers so that air could flow through there. But having looked at my car, and from the pictures of your car, that air still isn't "force fed" into the intake as well as the original factory air box did it.

The reason for any increased performance is because of a higher flowing air filter element/material/design, not colder air.

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#14 (permalink) Old 08-06-2004, 12:46 PM
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ACS, when you say "cooler" air, what do you mean?* How is the air any "cooler/colder" than it was with the original factory air intake?
By cooler air I meant just cold air. In one of your responses you were saying it's sucking in hot air from the engine bay and there's no fresh and cool air to suck in. I was showing the points where it gets fresh air from the outside and that the intake is shielded. It gets fresh air from the same spot as factory, behind the headlight, which is a direct flow into the intake and the larger brake/fog duct. Since the intake is sealed off, the air really has no place to go but into the intake. It's true that the brake/fog duct is not a direct feed into the intake, which would be ideal, however, it most likely supplies more air than the intake can "ingest" at any moment in time. Since the area is sealed this will create a pressure. And thanks to thte funnel design of the shielding this will also help in "forcing" more air into the intake.

This is why the gruppem is very touchy when it comes to dynos. WIthout the proper airflow into it it's not showing it's true numbers. This goes for just about any intake actually, but especially one that relies on higher speeds for its maximum power.

Quote:
The reason for any increased performance is because of a higher flowing air filter element/material/design, not colder air
agreed. just a misinterpretation of what I meant by colder air. I should have wrote "cold" instead of "colder". That's the point of a cold air intake, to provide that same factory cold air, but provide more of it faster. Only way to do that is with a more freely flowing filter, supply more air, and create more "DIRECTED" pressure forcing the air through at a quicker rate. The combination of the three is what's giving the performance. THe gruppem strives to do all three. Most CAI just do the first two, supply more of the cold air and get it through the filter more freely. I mean if you really want to do all three of those things in the best way possible you gotta get blown.

I don't disagree with you on anything. I was just showing how the gruppem gets cold air and how it gets its ramming effect. In all honesty though, any ram effect created by just a moving car at city street speeds is negligible. 1-2 hp max. You need to be on the track at tripple digit speeds to get the best benefits.
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#15 (permalink) Old 08-06-2004, 03:48 PM
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It gets fresh air from the same spot as factory, behind the headlight, which is a direct flow into the intake and the larger brake/fog duct.
But recall that not all 3 series have that duct (which really is quite small- couldn't fit a Nintendo 64 game cartridge thru it). So in a 323 without the duct, we are back to where the air is coming from.

But, if we both agree that the "COLD" air is really just relatively the same temperature as the car originally received with its factory unit, peace.

That is what I have always argued with people about. A lot of people somehow think these CAI's make the air colder than their original set up!!!

Quote:
I was just showing how the gruppem gets cold air and how it gets its ramming effect. In all honesty though, any ram effect created by just a moving car at city street speeds is negligible. 1-2 hp max. You need to be on the track at tripple digit speeds to get the best benefits.
I would call it more of a funneling effect on cars that have the headlight slit. Totally agree with you on what it takes to effectively ram air into an intake.

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