M3 Vs Cobra

[saltshaker185]

Originally Posted by RexKing86

haha i know... Im at school at U Dayton, and theres a GM factory down the road that I always hear about closing and such. I feel like I should like American cars more... but i just cant! w/e, i never plan to buy a new anything... I buy used... always a better value...

i always buy used also... unless its a part or soemthing that should be bought new... but 95% of the time im searching classifids if i want something... ever thought of having a bimmer meet in thier parking lot of GM? hahaha

[chknhwk]

Originally Posted by RexKing86

When american cars get even get 75hp/L... ill think about buying one... THINK about it. Put technology into your engines... not size

SVT Contour = 80 hp/L.

And if you want to compare SVT Cobra to M3/5 $ per $, check out this link:
Ford's Super Cobra

BTW, this is the gayest thread evar.

[Ivan]

Originally Posted by Johnathan_Hess

You can't even BUY a M3 GTR in the United States. What the fuck?

Ford makes faster cars than BMWs, and for a helluva lot cheaper.

Sorry.

and it shows. i got into an 03 cobra and the interior was very cheap and crappy compared to mine. when you buy a cobra youre pretty much just paying for performance. with a bmw and most german cars in general you pay for performance in addition to image, style, etc. thats why to get a german car to match a certain american cars performance you have to pay so much more.

[Ivan]

Originally Posted by RexKing86

haha, an american engine cant make that without displacement. The "No Replacement for displacement" motto has got to go. Even the GT mustange finally got 300hp out of a 4.6L V8... and everone was so excited. V8s should always make 300+! Even the japs have it right. My friend has an '03 stang, with the 3.8L V6 w/ 190hp. I have a '97 2.8L I6, and i make 190HP... c'mon now!
Even look at the sweet ZO6 7.0L V8 in the vette... 500HP. BMW M5/M6, 507HP out of a 5.0L (given it has 2 more pistons and a much higher redline)

When american cars get even get 75hp/L... ill think about buying one... THINK about it. Put technology into your engines... not size

technology is expensive. increasing it would make the cars significantly more expensive and then theyd sell like two of them because theyd be in the price range of cars the public percieves to be better. theyre not too worried about hp/liter because their cars still tear up the track ahead of or on pace with more expensive supposedly superior engineered cars and for a decent msrp. simpler=better

[Vintage racer]

Originally Posted by 94BMW325i

It was stupid to try and compare these 2 cars in the first place.

I wonder which car would win: A Ferrari F50 or a Mustang?

...and keep in mind that the SVT Cobras had IRS which if you look at SCCA rules, they are both in A stock which means they both handle very well.

I think you mean American Sedan (AS).

Bmw is Class Handling and a all round package

I'd agree that a BMW M3 has better handling and a better overall package.

Doc
(looking for a E46 M3, 6-speed)

[325iS]

I always get a kick out of reading these threads.

[spiff325is]

I think it's the engineering i'd look at before anything...

You've got these specs that have a standard deviation of about .2 seconds no matter who is testing them...

But what you should look at is that the mustang needed 5.0L's(or 4.8?) and a s/c just to produce 390 hp..while an M3 is a highly tuned 3.2L I6 that produces 333hp, 57 less hp, while still producing specs roughly the same, and will most likely outperform the hell out of that SVT the second it hits a circuit/canyon/turn.

[///M Power]

You're forgetting torque.

[325iS]

Originally Posted by spiff325is

. . . while an M3 is a highly tuned 3.2L I6 that produces 333hp. . .

Yeah, but how many miles will you get out of that "highly tuned" 3.2L motor. Face it, BMW is getting to the point of squeezing every bit of power of of that platform and the longevity of the motors are showing.

The fact is, these low power-per-liter american V-8's will go on forever as long as the routine maintinence is done. They aren't running on the raged-edge of performance and only a few degrees from detonation. In the same token, a Mustang owner can easily sink a little bit of money into his motor and have something that would just blister any M car out there. I like to call it, "room to grow.":lol:

Originally Posted by spiff325is

. . , and will most likely outperform the hell out of that SVT the second it hits a circuit/canyon/turn.

You have obviously never driven an IRS Mustang.

[gotKRAUT]

holy old thread batman

[Vintage racer]

Originally Posted by 325iS

You have obviously never driven an IRS Mustang.

I've driven one (for 33K miles). It didn't handle as well as a M3 (it also cost half as much). Ford no longer produces IRS Mustangs (the last one was a 2004). Of course, BMW doesn't currently make a M3.

[spiff325is]

I actually have driven one, and still think that the m3 will out perform it.

[KSE36M3]

throw a couple decent performance mods on the M and it'd eat the Cobra for lunch....but otherwise unfortunately nope.

Fred is pretty right when it comes to American cars and drag racing...few stock cars in the world can out torque a good muscle car (Cobra, Roush, Saleen, Z06, Viper). At least until you get up into the Porsche 911 GT3's etc. Let's just say I can't wait for the next gen M3....410 hp V8.....ought to send the Mustang's and other muscle cars back to their garages with their tail's between their legs, that is if BMW can keep the weight under control (something they did a poor job of with the M6).

Until then, you'll want a supercharger.....

[KSE36M3]

Originally Posted by 325iS

You have obviously never driven an IRS Mustang.

Well.....I hate to start an argument here....but I also hate Mustangs......and this has to be done. The M3 easily out handles any Mustang that hasn't had mods made, and likely still would after the 'Stang was modded. The M3 wasn't the 1998 Car and Driver (or was it a different mag?) "Best Handling Car in the world" for nothing. Sure the E46 is heavier, but I'd be willing to bet it still has the Mustang beat. German cars are made for handling as much as anything. Mustangs aren't. Bottom line.

And as for the "room to grow?" I wouldn't say an M doesn't have any.....While the average mustang needs modifications to keep up with a stock M, the M can be supercharged, etc. just as easily. So I wouldn't be so sure on the M's lack of ability to be "souped up." Throw a stage 2 supercharger on that E46 and it's pushing 510 hp, couple that with an exhaust, and short shifter and most Corvette's or Dodge Viper's would be seeing 4 tailpipes in their nightmares for weeks, much less a Mustang SVT.

[325iS]

Originally Posted by KSE36M3

So I wouldn't be so sure on the M's lack of ability to be "souped up." Throw a stage 2 supercharger on that E46 and it's pushing 510 hp. . .

You act like forced-induction is "free" horsepower and you can just add a blower to any car and it will work perfectly. The problem is that putting a blower on top of a 333hp naturally apsirated motor that is running 11.5:1 compression ratio is basically going to sign that motor deathwish... unless you program in a lot less timing and run low boost. Even then, you will be pretty limited to performance and probably won't be worth the addition of the blower drag on the motor.

However, you could probably run some serious racing fuel along with a good tune and could pull off some nice numbers, but then you're crossing the line from street car to race vehicle. IMO, unless you can run your shit off of straight pump-gas, then you don't have a street car and no longer can be considered in this friendly comparison that we are doing here.