Need Help - Is This Normal? - BMW Forum - BimmerWerkz.com
M-Series (M1, M3, M5, M6) General M-Series Discussion - If it does not fit into a more specific M Category above, please place it in here. In addition, previously archived M-Series discussion is located in this section.

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
#1 (permalink) Old 07-18-2005, 03:21 PM
n00b
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
andrew_zz is an unknown quantity at this point
(Thread Starter)
Thanks for reading my post.

I bought an M roadster 2 days ago (S54 engine) and I'm having a bit of trouble.

I planned to use it for everyday use + occasional track days (never done this yet).

For track days it's gonna be fantastic but everyday driving is just too fast. It's nearly impossible to potter along in this car. I need some advice both to check it's normal and how to drive it. Questions below.

1) 30mph limit, 5th gear = 1,000 rev's. It doesn't seem happy but I didn't want to drive round in 3rd gear all the time. Is it ok to drive like this or must I drop down a gear or two?

2) 1st gear to 2nd gear it has a habit of shuddering (I think I don't let up the clutch quick enough) but if I push it no problems. Am I ok to just let out the clutch quickly and need to accept the fact it then lurches forward? (worried i'll burn out the clutch)

3) At present it's all a bit jumpy. Everytime I change gear it slows down badly when i drop the clutch and then lurches forward when i release it. It's a real stop/go style of driving, is this normal?

4) I went from a subura legacy turbo (I thought was fast at the time) to my dodgem (astra 1.6 for 5 years) due to insurance and now to this. Anyone similar experience such a shift in power and might give me some calming words that over the next month or two I'd get used to/learn to handle the power of my roadster?

5) My manual states 0-60 something like 5.5 seconds but my legacy did it in 6.9 (tested). Is the manual wrong as it honestly feels much quicker more like 4.5. I'm wondering if my roadster has been modified especially if it's been chipped as the acceleration starts so heavy at such low revs. Should it be doing 0-60 in 7-8 seconds at 3-4K rev gear changes?

I'd appreciate any input e.g. if you got an M3 as it's similar engine if a touch heavier. Through i thought the gearing was better.
andrew_zz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 (permalink) Old 07-18-2005, 04:23 PM
Neutral Member
 
loftygoals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 78
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
loftygoals is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally posted by andrew_zz+Jul 18 2005, 03:21 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(andrew_zz @ Jul 18 2005, 03:21 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>1) 30mph limit, 5th gear = 1,000 rev's. It doesn't seem happy but I didn't want to drive round in 3rd gear all the time. Is it ok to drive like this or must I drop down a gear or two?
[/b]


BMWs like to keep the revs up. I rarely let the revs dip below 2k. Personally, I would leave it in third at 30 MPH. As long as you’re keeping it in the 2k-3k range you will keep the engine happy and get good gas mileage, but still have a little power if you want to accelerate without downshifting.

Quote:
Originally posted by andrew_zz@Jul 18 2005, 03:21 PM
2) 1st gear to 2nd gear it has a habit of shuddering (I think I don't let up the clutch quick enough) but if I push it no problems. Am I ok to just let out the clutch quickly and need to accept the fact it then lurches forward? (worried i'll burn out the clutch)
The 1st - 2nd shift is something that is a bit difficult to perfect in the BMW "big 6"s. If you rev the engine out a little further in 1st than you might with another car, you will have a much smoother shift. Personally, I think the CDV is part of the strange clutch feel on BMWs. This little part slows the clutch engagement. In my opinion, it just adds clutch wear. It can be safely and easily removed if you desire.

Quote:
Originally posted by andrew_zz@Jul 18 2005, 03:21 PM
3) At present it's all a bit jumpy. Everytime I change gear it slows down badly when i drop the clutch and then lurches forward when i release it. It's a real stop/go style of driving, is this normal?
Welcome to the world of little fast cars! I think part of what you're experiencing is real and part is perceived. Let me explain:

BMWs have a near 50/50 weight distribution. This means they have a very predicable and noticeable weight transfer during acceleration, stopping, and cornering. With that being said, when you are accelerating, the weight transfers to the back of your car. This is good because it helps keep those back tires planted on the pavement. When you disengage the clutch, the weight will swing back forward and the car will begin to coast. Because the car is now coasting, friction will instantly start decelerating the car. It can often seem like the car slows more rapidly than it actually does because of the back to front weight transfer.

The remedy is simple under hard acceleration: shift quickly. This reduces the time that you are coasting and the back to front weight transfer. Under normal driving, keep the revs up. (I've noticed that my M3 is happier if I choose shift points higher than I would with other manuals I've had in the past.) Also remember that even moderate acceleration with a S54 is quick, so you’re still going to have some weight transfer. This can be minimized by decreasing the throttle you’re applying as you approach your shift point.

Quote:
Originally posted by andrew_zz@Jul 18 2005, 03:21 PM
4) I went from a subura legacy turbo (I thought was fast at the time) to my dodgem (astra 1.6 for 5 years) due to insurance and now to this. Anyone similar experience such a shift in power and might give me some calming words that over the next month or two I'd get used to/learn to handle the power of my roadster?
I have an E36 M3, so I'm have a lot less HP than you do, but it was still a big adjustment from even my 325i. The fact my M3 is a convertible added to my trepidation. It’s hard to be comfortable with all the horse power when you in a little car with no top.

Soon, you'll realize that it actually the greatest feeling in the world!

<!--QuoteBegin-andrew_zz
@Jul 18 2005, 03:21 PM
5) My manual states 0-60 something like 5.5 seconds but my legacy did it in 6.9 (tested). Is the manual wrong as it honestly feels much quicker more like 4.5. I'm wondering if my roadster has been modified especially if it's been chipped as the acceleration starts so heavy at such low revs. Should it be doing 0-60 in 7-8 seconds at 3-4K rev gear changes?
[/quote]

I've seen the S54 M3 reported 0-60 at 4.7-4.9. I'm not sure the acceleration at 3-4k shifts, though.


Hope this helps,
-bj



1999 BMW ///M3 Convertible | 1994 BMW 525i | 1983 Porsche 944 Race Car (aka ///M944)
loftygoals is offline  
#3 (permalink) Old 07-18-2005, 05:10 PM
n00b
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
andrew_zz is an unknown quantity at this point
(Thread Starter)
Thanks liftygoals.

Your input was beneficial.

Basically accept a lower gear at low speeds.
More revs in 1st to 2nd (I'll try this and see how it works)
Unsure what CDV is, Could someone please elaborate?
0-60 of 4.7-4.9 sounds much more realistic through the instant power vrs turbo lag is taking some getting used to.

Also i am loving the car and it's a blast when i push it. It's just strange when i'm just trying to get to work but feel like i'm driving like a nutter (I think the car feels fast even at low speeds).
andrew_zz is offline  
#4 (permalink) Old 07-18-2005, 05:38 PM
Neutral Member
 
loftygoals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 78
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
loftygoals is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally posted by andrew_zz@Jul 18 2005, 05:10 PM
Unsure what CDV is, Could someone please elaborate?

I'm reading conflicting reports on the Z3 //Ms. Some sites state they don't have them installed, others do. Since I don't have a 2001-2002 Z3 (yet). I can't be for certain.


Here some text I stole from a website:

The Clutch Delay Valve (CDV) is a one-way restrictor between the clutch slave cylinder and clutch master cylinder, as shown in Figure 1 below. It "delays" the engagement of the clutch, much like old record players used a damped tone-arm to gently lower the needle onto the surface of a record.

Because of this valve, no matter how quickly you lift your foot off the clutch pedal, the clutch engages the flywheel at a constant (slow) rate. In theory, it can save the drive train from shock, were an inexperienced (or teenage) driver to dump the clutch at high RPM. But in practice, all it does is accelerate wear on the clutch and turn experienced drivers into people who, despite 20 years of practice, cannot shift gears smoothly. During parking maneuvers, the delay can be infuriating, causing constant slippage of the clutch. And during hard acceleration, the large amount of clutch slippage can greatly shorten the life of your clutch. During normal, sedate driving, the shift from first into second gear is often jerky, leading passengers to question your skill at driving manual equipped cars. As the driver, you can see your passengers' heads bobbing back and forth during every shift! Yes, in their minds, they are laughing at you.


This description make me thing you have the CDV, just based on your 1st-2nd shift problem.

Keep us informed on your thoughts and experiences with your car. I would like to find a nice 2001-2002 Z3 with the S54. I think they are one of the greatest 2 seater BMWs ever produced and a blast to drive.

-bj



1999 BMW ///M3 Convertible | 1994 BMW 525i | 1983 Porsche 944 Race Car (aka ///M944)
loftygoals is offline  
#5 (permalink) Old 07-18-2005, 07:43 PM
2nd Gear Member
 
Rookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Friday Harbor, WA
Posts: 471
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rookie is an unknown quantity at this point
Alright I know I don't have an M. However I have driven one quite a few times. As with all german engines DON'T LUG THE ENGINE!!!!! Just the thought of being in 5th gear at 30mps makes me cringe. If you look in the forums there are entire threads about how high people spin the engine everyday. Most of us with e36s will push damn near to redline 3-4 times a week, and these are guys with 150,000 miles on their engines. The only time you should have low RPMs is when you are engaging the clutch. Try this, go from a standstill to the clutch fully out and keep the engine at 1,000 rpms the entire time, once the clutch is fully out you can accelerate hard if you want or however you would like to drive.

Most people don't even shift during normal driving until 3,500-4,500 rpms. You should be cruising above 2,500-3,000 rpms, you engine will thank you.

Driving these cars does not have to be lurchy at all. I have people ride with me that don't even notice it is a manual. With pratice it will all even out. When you down shift let your foot off the gas before you pop the clutch, so the car is coasting but not slowing down as you shift gears. I hope this helps.

Hookers need love too!
What we do in life echoes an eternity
<img src='http://vfs.com/~3d43patrick/rookiesig2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Rookie is offline  
#6 (permalink) Old 07-19-2005, 03:16 AM
Neutral Member
 
loftygoals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 78
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
loftygoals is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally posted by Rookie@Jul 18 2005, 07:43 PM
When you down shift let your foot off the gas before you pop the clutch...
[snapback]363349[/snapback]
You're missing the most important part, blip the gas before reengaging the clutch on a down shift. With a little practice, you'll be able to rev match, make a silky smooth shift, save wear on your clutch, and impress you friends.

-bj



1999 BMW ///M3 Convertible | 1994 BMW 525i | 1983 Porsche 944 Race Car (aka ///M944)
loftygoals is offline  
#7 (permalink) Old 07-19-2005, 01:41 PM
1st Gear Member
 
FREDPLT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
FREDPLT is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to FREDPLT
3-4 Times a week we hit the red line, try everyday! The car likes to run, no doubt, so get used to it. Don't be worried about revving it, these engines love to be up around 3-4 grand on the tach.
Wait til you get that thing on a track!
Now someone tell me how to disengage this CDV!!!! I want it OUT!

1998 Cosmos M3
1986 Silver 735i
2000 Gold Tahoe Z71
FREDPLT is offline  
#8 (permalink) Old 07-19-2005, 04:40 PM
n00b
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
andrew_zz is an unknown quantity at this point
(Thread Starter)
I've been out all evening and am starting to realise that I will need to adapt to driving everywhere fast. I can sense a little of the old boy racer in me resurfacing so I hope that 2 weeks from now I look back and realise I was being an idiot.

The 50/50 weight distribution is more important than i first realised. It's designed for hard driving and the car wouldn't be the same without it. In time I'll learn to avoid the jerkiness it brings when accelerating/braking at slow speeds.

Lofty you asked about my experiences with the car as you thought you might buy one someday. If you've got any questions please ask away through i have a few notes below:

Performance:
Max torque around 3K revs and maintains that level upto 7.5K (very flat) I think the s52 engine isn't quite so flat.
Compared to a 4L Chimera (old one@240bhp i test drove) it feels quicker but also a lot more stable/safe/solid.

Day to day:
Kerb rash is a constant worry as is vandalism, it gets too much attention.
You sit low so it feels much faster than it actually is e.g. doing 40mph next to a volvo estate you'll feel like you should be flying past it even if your matched for speed.
Soft top is excellent, hood up it feels great with good head room. In fact unlike normal soft tops it feels a lot like a coupe but looks better.

Perceptions of others:
Expect a lot of attention, I wasn't expecting so much but like anyone with a pulse it is nice.
BMW owners who know what the M means are particulary impressed, others just state it looks good.
The interior gives a feeling of being special (compared to say a normal Z3)
People understand that 4 exhaust pipes = fast even if they don't know what the car is.

Overall:
I'd recommend it to anyone who likes very fast cars. Those who just want a good looking car should aim for something else as it's very hard to drive steady.
andrew_zz is offline  
#9 (permalink) Old 07-26-2005, 02:42 PM
You Can Has A Custom Title!!
 
e36_m3_Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 5,253
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
e36_m3_Turbo has a reputation beyond repute e36_m3_Turbo has a reputation beyond repute e36_m3_Turbo has a reputation beyond repute e36_m3_Turbo has a reputation beyond repute e36_m3_Turbo has a reputation beyond repute e36_m3_Turbo has a reputation beyond repute e36_m3_Turbo has a reputation beyond repute e36_m3_Turbo has a reputation beyond repute e36_m3_Turbo has a reputation beyond repute e36_m3_Turbo has a reputation beyond repute e36_m3_Turbo has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by loftygoals+Jul 19 2005, 01:16 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(loftygoals @ Jul 19 2005, 01:16 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Rookie@Jul 18 2005, 07:43 PM
When you down shift let your foot off the gas before you pop the clutch...
[snapback]363349[/snapback]
You're missing the most important part, blip the gas before reengaging the clutch on a down shift. With a little practice, you'll be able to rev match, make a silky smooth shift, save wear on your clutch, and impress you friends.

-bj
[snapback]363455[/snapback]
[/b][/quote]
blipping throttle.... makes for a smoother downshift. and dosent jerk you forward as much especially while braking.

<img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y149/QnRainStar/e30-blackangus032.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

No longer red.
e36_m3_Turbo is offline  
#10 (permalink) Old 07-27-2005, 04:57 PM
n00b
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
andrew_zz is an unknown quantity at this point
(Thread Starter)
I understand the old blipping the accelerator when downing a gear but isn't this only really required when driving hard. e.g. 5th gear to 3rd gear at 60 before overtaking.
Just in case people do this at every down shift, isn't it making driving a pain, I like a bit of work but not that much when driving steady.
andrew_zz is offline  
#11 (permalink) Old 07-27-2005, 11:37 PM
1st Gear Member
 
FREDPLT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
FREDPLT is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to FREDPLT
The way I see it if someone thinks I am too jerky with my clutch, they can get the F*** OUT! It's all what you wan tto do with your car, if you are happy, who cares what someone else thinks!

1998 Cosmos M3
1986 Silver 735i
2000 Gold Tahoe Z71
FREDPLT is offline  
#12 (permalink) Old 07-28-2005, 12:45 AM
You Can Has A Custom Title!!
 
e36_m3_Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 5,253
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
e36_m3_Turbo has a reputation beyond repute e36_m3_Turbo has a reputation beyond repute e36_m3_Turbo has a reputation beyond repute e36_m3_Turbo has a reputation beyond repute e36_m3_Turbo has a reputation beyond repute e36_m3_Turbo has a reputation beyond repute e36_m3_Turbo has a reputation beyond repute e36_m3_Turbo has a reputation beyond repute e36_m3_Turbo has a reputation beyond repute e36_m3_Turbo has a reputation beyond repute e36_m3_Turbo has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by andrew_zz@Jul 27 2005, 02:57 PM
I understand the old blipping the accelerator when downing a gear but isn't this only really required when driving hard. e.g. 5th gear to 3rd gear at 60 before overtaking.
Just in case people do this at every down shift, isn't it making driving a pain, I like a bit of work but not that much when driving steady.
[snapback]365554[/snapback]
not really. if you want to make your passengers feel comfony. then blip it and downshift to make it smooth

<img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y149/QnRainStar/e30-blackangus032.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

No longer red.
e36_m3_Turbo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  BMW Forum - BimmerWerkz.com > BMW Model Specific Forums > M-Series (M1, M3, M5, M6)


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
what engine oil to put in because i dont know if its syntec or normal? träumer 3-Series (E21, E30) 3 11-01-2005 02:40 PM
Does This Spark Plug Look Normal ? pcy 3-Series (E36) 2 03-19-2005 04:40 PM
Dinan Cai Whistling -- Normal? jenn330ci 3-Series (E46, E90) 3 01-25-2005 12:26 PM
Normal Tempeture On E30 CR320i 3-Series (E21, E30) 5 12-31-2004 08:12 PM
Is 4800 Rpm Engine Cut Out Normal? WindowPro 5-Series (E12,E28, E34, E39, E60) 13 10-30-2004 11:20 PM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome