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M-Series (M1, M3, M5, M6) General M-Series Discussion - If it does not fit into a more specific M Category above, please place it in here. In addition, previously archived M-Series discussion is located in this section.

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#1 (permalink) Old 09-27-2004, 08:10 PM
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Let's hear some opinions on e46 M3 vs. B6 S4's... Personally I think the S4 is a p0s wanna-be M3. Notice how much people who drive S4's have to mod out their cars to bring them up to par with our M3's. Audi is general is inferior to BMW and Mercedes. These are my opinions...
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#2 (permalink) Old 09-27-2004, 09:45 PM
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doesn't that car have a turbo, if it does nuff said, i think the s4 is ugly as hell too, the m3 is just beautiful

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#3 (permalink) Old 09-27-2004, 10:15 PM
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It all depends on what generation S4 you are referring to, the B5 (older) or B6 (new). The B5 is a Bi-Turbo 250hp 258ft lb torque sleeper sedan with all wheel drive and 6 speed manual (optional triptronic auto if you're a putz), that is fun from the start. But the reason so many S4 owners (my mom included) decides to chip their car is because of the dyno proven results. APR chip rates the car at 306hp and 366lb ft of torque. for $500 dollars you just got 56hp and 108lp ft torque. This change doesn't make the car less driveable just more fun when you want it. It's a completely different car than the M3 (which I'm not contesting it's awesomness ). The B6 edition has a 340 4.2lt V8 naturally aspirated. As a whole when I recently drove a 2004 B6, it didn't give me the same feeling of a quality complete package, but it was still a great car.

These cars are so different I don't know why people keep comparing, and bashing them... would you compare a C6 Corvette with a cadillac CTS-V just because it has similar engine specks? I'd hope not.

As far as quality goes, my mom's 2002 S4 (last year of B5 production) has 40,000
miles on it allready and has had ZERO trips to the dealer besides scheduled maintenance. Plus the Audi has a more put together luxurious interior than the M3 (which, purists will say doesn't matter because it's for sport... but do you honestly spend more time on the track or in traffic?) So if you insist on saying that Audi is a step below BMW and Mercedes than you are an ego snob.

A nice car is a nice car, don't hate

--edit: i didn't see that you said M3 v. B6 S4, but my response remains the same--
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#4 (permalink) Old 09-27-2004, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by schulman@Sep 27 2004, 08:15 PM
It all depends on what generation S4 you are referring to, the B5 (older) or B6 (new). The B5 is a Bi-Turbo 250hp 258ft lb torque sleeper sedan with all wheel drive and 6 speed manual (optional triptronic auto if you're a putz), that is fun from the start. But the reason so many S4 owners (my mom included) decides to chip their car is because of the dyno proven results. APR chip rates the car at 306hp and 366lb ft of torque. for $500 dollars you just got 56hp and 108lp ft torque. This change doesn't make the car less driveable just more fun when you want it. It's a completely different car than the M3 (which I'm not contesting it's awesomness ). The B6 edition has a 340 4.2lt V8 naturally aspirated. As a whole when I recently drove a 2004 B6, it didn't give me the same feeling of a quality complete package, but it was still a great car.

These cars are so different I don't know why people keep comparing, and bashing them... would you compare a C6 Corvette with a cadillac CTS-V just because it has similar engine specks? I'd hope not.

As far as quality goes, my mom's 2002 S4 (last year of B5 production) has 40,000
miles on it allready and has had ZERO trips to the dealer besides scheduled maintenance. Plus the Audi has a more put together luxurious interior than the M3 (which, purists will say doesn't matter because it's for sport... but do you honestly spend more time on the track or in traffic?) So if you insist on saying that Audi is a step below BMW and Mercedes than you are an ego snob.

A nice car is a nice car, don't hate
[snapback]200345[/snapback]

One of the things that I am not liking about this forum, besides M3Dude, is people's egoes... but whatever..

!
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#5 (permalink) Old 09-27-2004, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by brien4787+Sep 27 2004, 08:19 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(brien4787 @ Sep 27 2004, 08:19 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-schulman@Sep 27 2004, 08:15 PM
It all depends on what generation S4 you are referring to, the B5 (older) or B6 (new). The B5 is a Bi-Turbo 250hp 258ft lb torque sleeper sedan with all wheel drive and 6 speed manual (optional triptronic auto if you're a putz), that is fun from the start. But the reason so many S4 owners (my mom included) decides to chip their car is because of the dyno proven results. APR chip rates the car at 306hp and 366lb ft of torque. for $500 dollars you just got 56hp and 108lp ft torque. This change doesn't make the car less driveable just more fun when you want it. It's a completely different car than the M3 (which I'm not contesting it's awesomness ). The B6 edition has a 340 4.2lt V8 naturally aspirated. As a whole when I recently drove a 2004 B6, it didn't give me the same feeling of a quality complete package, but it was still a great car.

These cars are so different I don't know why people keep comparing, and bashing them... would you compare a C6 Corvette with a cadillac CTS-V just because it has similar engine specks? I'd hope not.

As far as quality goes, my mom's 2002 S4 (last year of B5 production) has 40,000
miles on it allready and has had ZERO trips to the dealer besides scheduled maintenance. Plus the Audi has a more put together luxurious interior than the M3 (which, purists will say doesn't matter because it's for sport... but do you honestly spend more time on the track or in traffic?) So if you insist on saying that Audi is a step below BMW and Mercedes than you are an ego snob.

A nice car is a nice car, don't hate
[snapback]200345[/snapback]

One of the things that I am not liking about this forum, besides M3Dude, is people's egoes... but whatever..
[snapback]200354[/snapback]
[/b][/quote]


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#6 (permalink) Old 09-27-2004, 10:33 PM
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why, for voicing my opinion? I love both cars, why do you think i'm on a BMW website? you've got issues
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#7 (permalink) Old 09-28-2004, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by schulman@Sep 27 2004, 08:15 PM
It all depends on what generation S4 you are referring to, the B5 (older) or B6 (new). The B5 is a Bi-Turbo 250hp 258ft lb torque sleeper sedan with all wheel drive and 6 speed manual (optional triptronic auto if you're a putz), that is fun from the start. But the reason so many S4 owners (my mom included) decides to chip their car is because of the dyno proven results. APR chip rates the car at 306hp and 366lb ft of torque. for $500 dollars you just got 56hp and 108lp ft torque. This change doesn't make the car less driveable just more fun when you want it. It's a completely different car than the M3 (which I'm not contesting it's awesomness ). The B6 edition has a 340 4.2lt V8 naturally aspirated. As a whole when I recently drove a 2004 B6, it didn't give me the same feeling of a quality complete package, but it was still a great car.

These cars are so different I don't know why people keep comparing, and bashing them... would you compare a C6 Corvette with a cadillac CTS-V just because it has similar engine specks? I'd hope not.

As far as quality goes, my mom's 2002 S4 (last year of B5 production) has 40,000
miles on it allready and has had* ZERO trips to the dealer besides scheduled maintenance. Plus the Audi has a more put together luxurious interior than the M3 (which, purists will say doesn't matter because it's for sport... but do you honestly spend more time on the track or in traffic?) So if you insist on saying that Audi is a step below BMW and Mercedes than you are an ego snob.

A nice car is a nice car, don't hate

--edit: i didn't see that you said M3 v. B6 S4, but my response remains the same--
[snapback]200345[/snapback]


I agree, people who don't have a lience and probably haven't even driven a car, should'nt be able to voice there opinions on cars. Cause without driving a car you can't tell anything about them, even from there numbers.
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#8 (permalink) Old 10-01-2004, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by schulman@Sep 27 2004, 10:15 PM
It all depends on what generation S4 you are referring to, the B5 (older) or B6 (new). The B5 is a Bi-Turbo 250hp 258ft lb torque sleeper sedan... etc. etc. et.
I concur doctor.

When I came over from the VW / Audi world to wonderful Bimmerland, I thought that I would be avoiding ignorant people... but apparantly they are everywhere.

I am surprised that you M3 fans don't know better. Both cars were made for different reasons, and for different customers. S4's, historically, have always been a little bit cushier and a little more driveable. M3's however were designed to give the average guy a taste of what it's like to actually drive a motorsport inspired car. Up until BMW decided to make the M's more "luxurious" (E36?), these machines were pretty rough and rugged. Christ, compare an E30 M3 to an early 90's S4. You're looking at a tough monster of a Bimmer and a small luxo-car with some pep. No contest.

To address the initial poster's comments and opinions... knowing that both cars are fairly different...

The BMW looks and performs better than Audi's newest V8 S4. It's amazing.. and anyone who thinks differently should take one for a drive. I respect the S4 for what it is... a fast as hell sedan for people who want MORE out of their A4... but if that's the case, then I'll stick with a late 90's 540i and be happy at the end of the day. But for one to say that the Audi is a POS only shows that you have neither owned nor driven an Audi... ever. Would you kock Audi's big brother, Porsche for being a POS... even when they are made with many of the same parts in the same factories, by the same people? I think not.

I am not trying to get on anyone's bad side here... since I am so new... but let's be honest, this is a BMW website... everyone is going to say that everything else is a "POS". I just fealt the need to kinda even the score... and the Bimmer still won. My $0.02.

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#9 (permalink) Old 10-01-2004, 12:29 PM
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Der Kommissar,

Just wondering how is reliablity of the bi-turbo on the B5. I heard you have to replace them when you hit about 150 000 km. They have some heating problems or something.
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#10 (permalink) Old 10-01-2004, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Live_the_Curves@Oct 1 2004, 12:29 PM
Der Kommissar,

Just wondering how is reliablity of the bi-turbo on the B5. I heard you have to replace them when you hit about 150 000 km. They have some heating problems or something.
[snapback]202810[/snapback]
The trick to any turbo systems (even bi-turbo) is changing the oil frequently. These little buggers get HOT! ... and after about 100K miles of spooling up until their housing is red hot, there may be some degredation of the bearings inside. Of course the more you romp on the car, the more wear you put on the turbos. And with S4's, you hear more about having to replace the turbos because people buy the cars to romp on them. It's the same thing as the VW GTI 1.8T motor, or even older RX-7 models with the turbo.

To answer your question... the Audi B5 turbo setup is only as reliable as the driver that maintains it. Drive it hard, and neglect the oil, or don't get a turbo timer, and yes, you'll blow your turbos. But that problem is prevalent in just about every car that comes with a turbo, stock.

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#11 (permalink) Old 10-02-2004, 01:00 AM
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I got a video of the B6 S4 vs. E46 M3 on top gear, the M3 beat the s4 in a straight line ( i think quater mile or even longer) by about 2-3 car length. However to my surprise the B6 S4 driven around a track by STIG came 1 second quiker (thats a lot) than the M3, in dry weather. Also note both the cars where quicker than a lotus esprite (that is sweet) and the S4 was just 1 place under a quater million dollar Lambourghini murcelieago (which beat the audi by 1.9 seconds).
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#12 (permalink) Old 10-02-2004, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by S4KLLR@Sep 27 2004, 07:10 PM
Let's hear some opinions on e46 M3 vs. B6 S4's... Personally I think the S4 is a p0s wanna-be M3. Notice how much people who drive S4's have to mod out their cars to bring them up to par with our M3's. Audi is general is inferior to BMW and Mercedes. These are my opinions...
[snapback]200235[/snapback]
Personally, i think the new S4 sucks, especially compare with the 00-01 model, the old model 0-60 in 5.5sec with 250hp, and new S4 5.3sec with 340hp, which is only 0.2sec faster, and thats soooo stupid, lol. So i rather buy the old model, lol.
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#13 (permalink) Old 10-02-2004, 11:02 AM
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Live_the_Curves Posted Yesterday, 11:00 PM
I got a video of the B6 S4 vs. E46 M3 on top gear, the M3 beat the s4 in a straight line ( i think quater mile or even longer) by about 2-3 car length. However to my surprise the B6 S4 driven around a track by STIG came 1 second quiker (thats a lot) than the M3, in dry weather. Also note both the cars where quicker than a lotus esprite (that is sweet) and the S4 was just 1 place under a quater million dollar Lambourghini murcelieago (which beat the audi by 1.9 seconds).
Yea those numbers don't seem right to me.... a S4 beating an M3 around a track by a second, BMW's were made for the curves. I believe that video is either rigged or the M3 driver was horrible.

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#14 (permalink) Old 10-02-2004, 11:32 AM
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Top Gear has a tradition of accurate testing of cars. Both the cars were driven by the same driver on the same day.
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#15 (permalink) Old 10-02-2004, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Live_the_Curves@Oct 1 2004, 11:00 PM
I got a video of the B6 S4 vs. E46 M3 on top gear, the M3 beat the s4 in a straight line ( i think quater mile or even longer) by about 2-3 car length. However to my surprise the B6 S4 driven around a track by STIG came 1 second quiker (thats a lot) than the M3, in dry weather. Also note both the cars where quicker than a lotus esprite (that is sweet) and the S4 was just 1 place under a quater million dollar Lambourghini murcelieago (which beat the audi by 1.9 seconds).
[snapback]203277[/snapback]

And you chip the old model to get extra 61hp. Its a very famous chip amonst the audi and volkswagan community.
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