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#1 (permalink) Old 07-07-2004, 11:10 AM
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Ok, i know you guys have heard it a million times over, but i really need sensible objective opions here.
i have a friend that eats and lives on the car auction scene. I want an M3, no i need an M3. now i was obsessed with the E36 M3, until the E46 came out, and i also made the mistake recently of test driving one. bad move, MAJOR BONER!

so needless to say, in the ideal world, id drive a Imola red M3 coupe, with shadowline trim and imola red leather. 6sp with the premium package.

but reality is a b1tch isnt it. so my boy says he can get me a 99 0o 98 for about the mid teens, this with prolly about 40k or so miles. i dont want to go older than 98 because mainly i dont like the 4 spoke steering wheel, and as far as i know, (correct me if im wrong) the plastic water pump impeller problem was addressed by BMW by 97.

so i can get a 98 or 99 real easy fairly low miles, by my count and pay less insurance and car loan payments VS. a E46, and have change left to actually do a few mods, maybe tune her up to about 260+hp with AA's help.

OR

i can let me search and seacrh and find me a 01 or maybe newer with prolly a salvage title and even lower miles for $25- 30k. and pay a LOT more for insurancce and car payments, and have not much money to do mods, BUT seeing that its a much better car (depending on who you ask) stock for stock VS. the E36 M.
however i dont liek the sound of the E46M when approaching redline, that is truly the only let down i had. but i could live with it no doubt.

the smaller things are, for him to find red E46 with matching interior is extremely hard. and i really dont liek the E46M in any ther color except red and silver, and maybe black. A 99 M3 tho, i like a lot of colors, blue, red, silver, black. and the interior color is not biggy, as long as i get vader seats.

so what do i do. do i snap to reality and be reasonable and get a 99 o r do i sacrifice like a mofo and go for a E46, plus id prolly hit him with $30K and get one that has a clean title too. i love the E46 M3 as most of you prolly do too, but the E36 aint no punk either, its just a past love, with lingering feelings, and more issues.

im also in the military and im in the process of trying to reenlist with a new job that would most likely have me statoned in europe. so do i wait and try to bring a E46 back or get it now and use all the dough i make overseas to pay it off, or C just settle for a E36 for now, pay it off and try to get a E46 when i come back, or D keep my accord until i come back and then just bring back a E46 or buy one when i get back.

you know what scratch option D im sick of this FWD auto thing.

thanks for the feedback.

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#2 (permalink) Old 07-07-2004, 11:14 AM
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If I were you i'd hit the e36. I've heard there were some engine issues with the 01, and salvage vehicles may never be the same again if they had serious body damage. The e36 was also voted Car and Drivers(i think it was C&D) best handling car in 1997.....over Ferraris, Vipers, Vettes, etc. The e36 m3 really is a fantastic car!

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#3 (permalink) Old 07-07-2004, 11:23 AM
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True, no doubt the E36 is HOTT!! but that salvage stuff does'nt bother me. my accord now is actually a prior slavage. see the thin when peopel here salvage they thing major wreck, thats what carfax and the insurance companies said, but in all reality, my accord had a mere fender bender, and they totalled it. ive seen ole boy buy a S500 on dubs, with TVs and DVDs everything, and it was totalled salvage title and all. what was wrong with it? someone looked like they misjudged a gate or something, hit the passenger front corner, it needed a bumper a headlight, a fender and a mirrio, thats it, no airbags nothin. but it had a salvage title.

Im really shying from them tho, theyre too hard to resell.

What problems do the 98 AND 99 M3s have.

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#4 (permalink) Old 07-07-2004, 12:08 PM
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Save for a couple of months and get an E46. They are significantly better than the 36.

If you are getting a used one then just keep looking until you find what you want... don't make a hasty purchase and regret it.

<span style='color:blue'>&quot;So my BM makes me a flash bastard? Then I guess you're just keeping it real from the seat of your nova?&quot;</span>

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#5 (permalink) Old 07-07-2004, 01:33 PM
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Save for a couple of months and get an E46. They are significantly better than the 36.

If you are getting a used one then just keep looking until you find what you want... don't make a hasty purchase and regret it.
Dude i seriously doubt ill regret buying a 99 M3 and being able to mod it, cmon its an M3 not a S2000.

and why do you say its significantly better, apart from performance and prolly handling what else makes it so good. unfortunately ive test driven A 03 M3 myself, but ive obly ridden shotgun briefly in a 4dr auto M3 back in the day, so i dont know them that well,
besides, i cant wait anymore man, im sick of driving an automatic. and i need torque, and i am really hating fwd, its no fun at all. all those things id have to keep on living with unless i sell my Honda. or i could get rid of it and get me crothc rocket until i can afford a E46. hmmmm.

anybody else, the wheels in my head are still turning here, cmon feed me, i noticed no one mentioned my bring one back part of my question. hell, even if i get a E36 i can surely find me a Euro spec motor and do a swap if i get stationed overseas too.

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#6 (permalink) Old 07-07-2004, 03:45 PM
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This is a topic that has been debated ad nauseam on many other enthusiast boards.

The bottom line is that the E46 much faster than the E36. It is the manner in which the E46 goes about its business that, for many, leaves something to be desired. Compared to the E36, the E46 feels much less involving, less visceral and more isolated. Where the E36 feels direct, raw and communicative even at legal U.S. speeds, the E46 feels lazy and even uninspired unless one is approaching take-me-to-jail velocity. These comments come from enthusiasts who have come out of E36 M3s into the E46 - similar comments have come from the automotive press as well.

In short... from everything I have read, the E36 M3 is a car that is more fun and satisfying to drive, even though it is not as fast as its successor.

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#7 (permalink) Old 07-07-2004, 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by ARCHER@Jul 7 2004, 03:25 PM
This is a topic that has been debated ad nauseam on many other enthusiast boards.

The bottom line is that the E46 much faster than the E36. It is the manner in which the E46 goes about its business that, for many, leaves something to be desired. Compared to the E36, the E46 feels much less involving, less visceral and more isolated. Where the E36 feels direct, raw and communicative even at legal U.S. speeds, the E46 feels lazy and even uninspired unless one is approaching take-me-to-jail velocity. These comments come from enthusiasts who have come out of E36 M3s into the E46 - similar comments have come from the automotive press as well.

In short... from everything I have read, the E36 M3 is a car that is more fun and satisfying to drive, even though it is not as fast as its successor.
damn, thats hitting it directly.
so all that and i still oved it, i need to test drive a E36 then and see whats up.
im like 80% leaning towards the older M3 right now too.

hey, can you guys tell me key words to use in my seacrh im trying to find all the common E36 problems, i knpow abou tthe water pump and the rear floor not that that should bother me. buit is there anything else, high G oil starvation problems, cooling problems, etc.

thanks again.

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#8 (permalink) Old 07-07-2004, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by snikwad+Jul 7 2004, 03:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (snikwad @ Jul 7 2004, 03:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-ARCHER@Jul 7 2004, 03:25 PM
This is a topic that has been debated ad nauseam on many other enthusiast boards.

The bottom line is that the E46 much faster than the E36. It is the manner in which the E46 goes about its business that, for many, leaves something to be desired. Compared to the E36, the E46 feels much less involving, less visceral and more isolated. Where the E36 feels direct, raw and communicative even at legal U.S. speeds, the E46 feels lazy and even uninspired unless one is approaching take-me-to-jail velocity. These comments come from enthusiasts who have come out of E36 M3s into the E46 - similar comments have come from the automotive press as well.

In short... from everything I have read, the E36 M3 is a car that is more fun and satisfying to drive, even though it is not as fast as its successor.
damn, thats hitting it directly.
so all that and i still oved it, i need to test drive a E36 then and see whats up.
im like 80% leaning towards the older M3 right now too.

hey, can you guys tell me key words to use in my seacrh im trying to find all the common E36 problems, i knpow abou tthe water pump and the rear floor not that that should bother me. buit is there anything else, high G oil starvation problems, cooling problems, etc.

thanks again. [/b][/quote]
• Be sure to download this...

http://www.eurospeed.org/e36m3faq.pdf


• A fairly comprehensive list of known issues can be found here...

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30931


• Regarding oil starvation - this site belongs to a good friend of mine...

http://www.brazeauracing.com/oilpan.htm


• Do a Google search for Ron Stygar (highly-respected E36 M3 guru).

• Also, and not to take away from this board, but the E36 M3 board at bimmerforums.com is extremely active and very technically-oriented. If you can't find it there, you probably won't find it.

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#9 (permalink) Old 07-07-2004, 06:22 PM
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I'll make my opinion short...E46

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#10 (permalink) Old 07-08-2004, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ARCHER@Jul 7 2004, 04:06 PM

Quote:
thanks again.
• Be sure to download this...

http://www.eurospeed.org/e36m3faq.pdf


• A fairly comprehensive list of known issues can be found here...

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30931


• Regarding oil starvation - this site belongs to a good friend of mine...

http://www.brazeauracing.com/oilpan.htm


• Do a Google search for Ron Stygar (highly-respected E36 M3 guru).

• Also, and not to take away from this board, but the E36 M3 board at bimmerforums.com is extremely active and very technically-oriented.
dawg, your awesome, thanks man, i registered over there not too long after you guys started answereing me here. matter a fact, im completely for the E36 for now, the thread i posted over there was, which year is the best to get. but those links are awesome.

real quick tho, i know racers have the oil starvation problem, but is it really a problem for the occasional agressive street driving? i mean do you have it, has you oil light came on while powering out of an on ramp or off ramp before. or can i skip that one.

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#11 (permalink) Old 07-08-2004, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by snikwad@Jul 7 2004, 06:13 PM
Dude i seriously doubt ill regret buying a 99 M3 and being able to mod it, cmon its an M3 not a S2000.

and why do you say its significantly better, apart from performance and prolly handling what else makes it so good.
What has being an M3, not an S2000 got to do with it? Surely that's more of a reason NOT to modify it.....

What makes it better apart from the performance and handling? It's got nicer dials.... does that make a difference?

All I meant by not making a regretable decision was that you have a good test of both before you make your choice based on a forum's opinion.

You might want to consider the cost of ownership too in the sense of the resale value in a couple of years time. By then the E36 will be 2 models old and may be hit hard by further depreciation. Just a thought.... it could end up being a difference of a couple of thousand over a few years!

<span style='color:blue'>&quot;So my BM makes me a flash bastard? Then I guess you're just keeping it real from the seat of your nova?&quot;</span>

<span style='color:gray'>&quot;...and the home of the brave..... is bravey 130bhp from a 7 litre engine? 100bhp/litre or don't bother building it!&quot;</span>

<span style='color:red'>&quot;Aaahh the UK; where every road is jammed, under construction, poorly maintained and unfairly policed, at least we don't get over-taxed for it........ HA HA HA!&quot;</span>
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#12 (permalink) Old 07-08-2004, 09:00 AM
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dude, thats a lot of stuff. are all of thos ethat common, like say the water pump and crappy radiators are. i mean, damn. and whats up with this 5th gear thing. i drive a 6th gen V6 accord now and thier transission arent worth crap, i know cats on my forum that have been thru 2 trannys before 50k miles. is this as serious with the M3. i really dont want another auto, but the last ting i need is a crappy manual.

im already scared. i dont like drivetrain problems one bit, they always cost a sh1t load. the other stuff is no bigger, bushings, shock mounts, and we all know BMWs crappy cooling systems. but this tranny thing got me spooked man, im already feeling like i should skip the E36

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#13 (permalink) Old 07-08-2004, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr White G+Jul 8 2004, 08:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mr White G @ Jul 8 2004, 08:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-snikwad@Jul 7 2004, 06:13 PM
Dude i seriously doubt ill regret buying a 99 M3 and being able to mod it, cmon its an M3 not a S2000.

and why do you say its significantly better, apart from performance and prolly handling what else makes it so good.
[/b][/quote]
Quote:
What has being an M3, not an S2000 got to do with it? Surely that's more of a reason NOT to modify it.....

What makes it better apart from the performance and handling? It's got nicer dials.... does that make a difference?

All I meant by not making a regretable decision was that you have a good test of both before you make your choice based on a forum's opinion.

You might want to consider the cost of ownership too in the sense of the resale value in a couple of years time. By then the E36 will be 2 models old and may be hit hard by further depreciation. Just a thought.... it could end up being a difference of a couple of thousand over a few years!

well lets just say, this Honda should be my last. and as nice as the S2K is, its not half as practical as a M3, 2 seater, high strung 4 banger, no torque, convertible.
naw, its so not me, but hell, give me a good deal i wont say no. lol.

i thought about that 3 models out thing before but it doesnt bother me much, i mean look at the E28 M5 and the E30 M3, these are HOTTT!!!! lots of people still want them and only them, ive been noticing a constant gripe from magazines everytime a new M model debuts, it like they loose a littel bit more of what made M models so coveted, with each succesive model. i mean the E60 M5 is only gonna be available in SMG form, what the hell is that. and the E46 may very well be the last straight 6 M3. these are factors to consider which may make the older more hardcore models hold thier value among BMW enthusiast more, no i dont expect to make my money back, but if i get one ill most likely get it thru my boy and and id be gettign a crazy deal so the loss wont be that great.

i dont know man, after seeing them tranny problems that the E36 has im worried, i drive too agressively to have a tranny lock me out.

what problems do the E46 M3s have, apart from those made in that particluar period where they were blowing engines? i mean is the E46 like the best 3 series chassis in recent times from BMW, i dont hear anything about them. Whats the flip side, whats thir problems?

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#14 (permalink) Old 07-08-2004, 09:33 AM
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Have you driven an S2k? I work for Honda, they are pretty bloody good, 4 pot or not! Compare it to it BM counterpart, the Z4 and see what the result is. (My only problem is that they are convertible... (car style reserved where I live for gays, women and men with mid-life crisis problems.)

The only major problem to worry about with the e46 is the '01 build engines. They were a touch delicate.

The chassis is incredible... bmws have brilliant handling but the M3 is obscene! The wide track, balance and traction is from another plant.

Fair point about the older M cars, I think all M cars are classic in thier own right.

You won't make a bad decision going for either but they are very different animals.

<span style='color:blue'>&quot;So my BM makes me a flash bastard? Then I guess you're just keeping it real from the seat of your nova?&quot;</span>

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#15 (permalink) Old 07-08-2004, 09:38 AM
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naw, havent driven one. but cmon the only Z4 id even look at and think about buying is a one off made by Hamann, the ZM5.
i really dont llike em that much, theyre not as hardcore as the S2K but to me, they are full scale BMWs. if i needed a drop top id cop a 330iC.

i hear you tho. im searching to see what other "kinks" the E46 chassis and M3s have. since im pretty much back to 50/50

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