Car & Driver - BMW Forum

RexKing86 · 08-13-2005, 10:47 AM

Well if you own an M car and are active on this forum, i'm sure you get a car magazine. I happen to get C&D, MT, & R&T. However i wanted to ask if anyone has seen the Sept 2005 issue od C&D. Of coarse i am refering to the cover story "Audi's Righteous RS4 ascends the rocket-sedan pulpit. Can this 414-hp thunderbolt smite the wicked M3 and C55?" If you dont get C&D, heres the article in full:

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?se...article_id=9846

BMW's 3.2 I-6 is simply amazing in my opinion. At 1 full litre smaller then Audi's 4.2 and 2.2 litres smaller then the mercedes, yet it still competes with them. C&D reports that the RS4 & M3 have a 0-60 of 4.8 and the C55 just 1/10 quicker w/ 4.7s- but 2.2L bigger... it should be betting both cars by more than 1/10.

C&D has given much praise to this new RS4... and i think its BS. The car is definetly nice, but theres one BIG problem... IT COSTS 80 GRAND! THATS 30k more than an M3!!! THe only thing that the RS4 has on the M3 is quattro. A friend of mine has a 2005 S4 V8, and it really does handle excellent, in all road conditions. I know most of you know that your M3 is pretty amazing, but i just wanted to reiterate it and to say im proud to own a BMW.

Cellardoor · 08-13-2005, 11:06 AM

THANK YOU! i said the exact same when i was looking at the article. thanks for writing EXACTLY what i was thinking!

-Hutch-

4evrwyntr · 08-13-2005, 11:27 AM

I'm sure the RS4 is a great car. I'm sure the Mercedes has an efficient engine.
Only one of the previous statements was true.
Audi is looking better and better for every year.
And for most people, the argument against the m3 is "Yeah, but this car is $20k less!".
So what happens when you have a car that is, with most respects, equal to the m3 despite obvious efficiency problems, that is MORE EXPENSIVE?!? Jesus christ, the m3 is already at a premium. I'm selling my car and getting an STi. 3 of them. And I'll name them each R, S, and 4.

Point is, most people that are looking at cars other than bmw only care about 2 things: looks (bimmerfans are susceptible to this as well), and HORSEPOWER. Horsepower isn't everything folks (thanks, audi, for realizing that to some extent). No one cares about efficiency any more. The I6, imo is the perfect road engine, with the m5 v10 coming in second (only because it's completely unnecessary, whereas the i6 is only mostly unnecessary).

RexKing86 · 08-13-2005, 11:41 AM

Dont get me wrong, I think audi is great too. Before my 328, i owned an A4. I like both, but I would take my BMW over the Audi. In a year or so when the V8 M3 is relased it wont even be a competition, however I hope they dont follow audi with an 80k price. Your right about HP too, weight, torque, areodynamics, etc are eqaully important to a car as the horsepower rating. That why the 0-60 is the most honest when tested on the same conditions.

Have fun with your STi's great lil car... may i recommend an EVO tho, other than a few less HP, ive heard that everything else is better about it over the STi

4evrwyntr · 08-13-2005, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RexKing86@Aug 13 2005, 11:41 AM
Dont get me wrong, I think audi is great too. Before my 328, i owned an A4. I like both, but I would take my BMW over the Audi. In a year or so when the V8 M3 is relased it wont even be a competition, however I hope they dont follow audi with an 80k price. Your right about HP too, weight, torque, areodynamics, etc are eqaully important to a car as the horsepower rating. That why the 0-60 is the most honest when tested on the same conditions.
Have fun with your STi's great lil car... may i recommend an EVO tho, other than a few less HP, ive heard that everything else is better about it over the STi

[snapback]369439[/snapback]

Well, I figure I can buy the STi's in bulk. And get them in hot pink, vomit green, and of course, my all time favorite, metallic orange.
I've been wanting to test drive an Audi, but I'm afraid of parking my m3 in one of their lots.

bmw_545i_v8 · 08-14-2005, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RexKing86@Aug 13 2005, 09:47 AM
Well if you own an M car and are active on this forum, i'm sure you get a car magazine. I happen to get C&D, MT, & R&T. However i wanted to ask if anyone has seen the Sept 2005 issue od C&D. Of coarse i am refering to the cover story "Audi's Righteous RS4 ascends the rocket-sedan pulpit. Can this 414-hp thunderbolt smite the wicked M3 and C55?" If you dont get C&D, heres the article in full:

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?se...article_id=9846

BMW's 3.2 I-6 is simply amazing in my opinion. At 1 full litre smaller then Audi's 4.2 and 2.2 litres smaller then the mercedes, yet it still competes with them. C&D reports that the RS4 & M3 have a 0-60 of 4.8 and the C55 just 1/10 quicker w/ 4.7s- but 2.2L bigger... it should be betting both cars by more than 1/10.

C&D has given much praise to this new RS4... and i think its BS. The car is definetly nice, but theres one BIG problem... IT COSTS 80 GRAND! THATS 30k more than an M3!!! THe only thing that the RS4 has on the M3 is quattro. A friend of mine has a 2005 S4 V8, and it really does handle excellent, in all road conditions. I know most of you know that your M3 is pretty amazing, but i just wanted to reiterate it and to say im proud to own a BMW.

[snapback]369427[/snapback]

Quattro is a weapon of AUDI and Lambo. but i hope BMW to use the Inline 6 again, i love inline 6. V8 is too much for a small car.

///M Power · 08-15-2005, 04:59 PM

The new V8 block will weigh about the same as the current i6. Its about time the M3 hits 400 hp

4evrwyntr · 08-17-2005, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ///M Power@Aug 15 2005, 04:59 PM
The new V8 block will weigh about the same as the current i6. Its about time the M3 hits 400 hp

[snapback]369768[/snapback]

Too much, IMO. The only thing more horsepower will do nowadays is counter the growing obesity problem. Of the cars, not the drivers. Why not keep the current I6 but lose 500 lbs. on the car? That would see some gains. A lot more than 60 more horsepower and some odd 300 lbs or whatever they weigh now.
Granted, I am leaving out the inevitable torque increase one gets with displacement...

///M Power · 08-17-2005, 02:54 PM

300 pounds? Are you pulling this stuff out of thin air?

It's not easy to just "lose 500 lbs. on the car," rather a very expensive process if you want to maintain some amenities, but even more so chances are you will loose a lot of amenities. 500 pound is a ridiuclous amount of weight to loose if you watn to stay in the same price range.

LongHairedHippy · 08-17-2005, 06:16 PM

it is doubtful that we will see much of an increase in the M3's price once the e90 M3 is let loose. the reason is that if they take it to 80k, they are encroaching on M5/M6 territory. The M division is small enough that BMW isn't going to risk losing sales to competition among its own models, and it will certainly not move the M3 (the largest volume M model) to a price position where they will lose sales.

4evrwyntr · 08-17-2005, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ///M Power@Aug 17 2005, 02:54 PM
300 pounds? Are you pulling this stuff out of thin air?
It's not easy to just "lose 500 lbs. on the car," rather a very expensive process if you want to maintain some amenities, but even more so chances are you will loose a lot of amenities. 500 pound is a ridiuclous amount of weight to loose if you watn to stay in the same price range.

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I was indeed pulling numbers out of my ass. I admit exaggeration on the part of frustration, that is all. I am completely cognizant of what I am saying. Like I said, I wanted to drive the point home through exaggeration.
But hey, Lotuses (Loti?) are skinny AND cheap.
Hey, anyone realize how skinny girls cost more, too?

BMWGuy325i · 08-18-2005, 10:39 PM

I dont think its right to classify the RS4 with an E46 M3, Now a new S4 with the V8 is comparable and in its price ranges. Its just like an order...... 325i - A4, M3 - S4, M3CSL - RS4. IMO

///M Power · 08-19-2005, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 4evrwyntr+Aug 17 2005, 06:11 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(4evrwyntr @ Aug 17 2005, 06:11 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-///M Power@Aug 17 2005, 02:54 PM
300 pounds? Are you pulling this stuff out of thin air?
It's not easy to just "lose 500 lbs. on the car," rather a very expensive process if you want to maintain some amenities, but even more so chances are you will loose a lot of amenities. 500 pound is a ridiuclous amount of weight to loose if you watn to stay in the same price range.

[snapback]370320[/snapback]

I was indeed pulling numbers out of my ass. I admit exaggeration on the part of frustration, that is all. I am completely cognizant of what I am saying. Like I said, I wanted to drive the point home through exaggeration.
But hey, Lotuses (Loti?) are skinny AND cheap.
Hey, anyone realize how skinny girls cost more, too?

[snapback]370371[/snapback]

[/b][/quote]

LOL NICE!!!

But yeah I fully agree with you. A lighter car would be a lot more fun to drive just because of the handlign aspect gained aswell.

The problem with the Lotus elise is thta it is fucking tiny. The interior is about the size of a duffle bag and it has 0 luxuy amenities. I mean ZERO!!!!!!

But thye look fucking sick.

Funny enough a Lotus dealership was just opened up within the past few months here where I live. It is in the place of where the old BMW dealership was before they relocated. Fuck they have 5-6 Elise's lined up outside of the dealership and they just look sick. ive seen a few in my city. Thats a real sports car. When I told my dad the horsepower numbers he nealy fell out of his chair.

4evrwyntr · 08-19-2005, 08:22 AM

That's when you strike it to him the 0-60 times despite the horsepower ratings...
Anyway, back on topic, I agree with the price thing... it's doubtful to start being euqal in price to the m5... otherwise they will be competing against themselves - with such a small division (m), they really can't afford to do that.