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Old 01-11-2004, 08:28 AM   #1 (permalink)
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There's been some dicussion about this new model on some other boards I thought I would open it up for dicussion. The talk is it was a tick quicker .01 of a second the a M5 or M3 which doesen't make sense on a lap time at Nuerburgring Nordschleife. I just got my 04 M3 a couple of months ago. I thought about waiting and getting one of these CTS V caddys, but after doing my homework, I decided its still just basically a CTS with a corvette engine and tranny. This car was not originally designed for this type of performance. It just does not have the balance and the overall true sporting performance of the M. It's really not in the same leaque in my opinon. It's kind of a bastard fit set up. I just have a very hard time beliving this. I haven't seen one but but at the weight of that car I belive if he tried to follow me thru some high g cornering he would loose alot of paint on the guardrails. Isen't that like a 3600 3700 hundred pound car.
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Old 01-11-2004, 08:38 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I found a little more information. 3847 pounds and they are saying it will beat an M3 on a track. They need to get real.


Year of introduction 2003
Weight 1745 kg / 3847.1 lbs

Drivetrain
Engine LS6 90º V8
Engine location Front, longitudinally mounted
Displacement 5.665 liter / 345.7 cu in
Valvetrain 2 valves/cylinder, OHV
Fuel feed Sequential port Fuel injection
Aspiration Naturally Aspirated
Gearbox Tremec T56 6 Speed Manual
Drive Rear wheel drive

Performance figures
Power 400 bhp / 298.4 kW @ 6000 rpm
BHP/Liter 70.6
Torque 529 Nm / 390.2 ft lbs @ 4800 rpm
Power to weight ratio 0.23 bhp/kg
Top Speed 155.3 mph / 250.0 km/h
0-60 mph Acceleration 4.90 s
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Old 01-11-2004, 12:28 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I haven't really heard much about it, I'd still go with an ///M over that car anyways.
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Old 01-11-2004, 01:43 PM   #4 (permalink)
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it sounds like you are almost....scared of the CTS-V? Second thoughts?

why didnt u test drive it? or go and test drive it and tell them you are thinking of trading the ///M for it. Then report to us.
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Old 01-11-2004, 04:09 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I think you know If I drove the caddy I would hate it compared to the M3 I have. Thank You. No second thoughts. I love my M. I have driven many performance cars and noting really compares, at least for my taste in engine performance and handling. I just don't see alot of M drivers being scared of a caddy. I would be more then happy to try one out, but I want someone else driving it beside my M. As far as being scared several years ago while I was racing a 67 Vette, 427 built strong from the bottom up "knew the guy"and I saw him jump 2 cars when hitting forth gear. Now that was scary. I was driving an under 12.00 second car at the time, and I was not even close.
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Old 01-12-2004, 01:00 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally posted by roloson@Jan 11 2004, 10:18 AM
I found a little more information. 3847 pounds and they are saying it will beat an M3 on a track. They need to get real.
From pg. 63 of Automobile Magazine (Sept. '03 issue):

"Around the Nürburgring, the V is heroic. Without trying too hard, we were able to lap in less than nine minutes, just four seconds shy of our best time in the ultimate pre-993 Porsche 911, the RS 3.8.
John Heinricy, director of high-performance vehicles for GM's Performance Division, has gone around the circuit in eight minutes and nineteen seconds, which is better than the current M3 has managed to do."
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Old 01-13-2004, 03:19 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Who cares if the CTS-V is a hair quicker than the M3. It is a Corvette with 2 more doors and a face lift. The M3 is more of a true bred sports car. The M3 isn't much slower, looks much more aggressive, has much more evolved suspension, brakes, & handling. The overall performance of BMW M that the CTS-V is reluctant to match. I'd rather take my $50,000.00 and pick up a dope 04' E46 M3 with SMG II. I will race that CTS-V. Win or lose...the M3 kicks ASS!! Nuff said.

PS - It's kind of like owning a Veyron. If an Enzo pulls up on your ass in the left lane, you just kindly move aside. One word, humble.
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Old 01-13-2004, 04:33 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Ganesh@Jan 13 2004, 04:59 PM
Who cares if the CTS-V is a hair quicker than the M3. It is a Corvette with 2 more doors and a face lift. The M3 is more of a true bred sports car. The M3 isn't much slower, looks much more aggressive, has much more evolved suspension, brakes, & handling. The overall performance of BMW M that the CTS-V is reluctant to match. I'd rather take my $50,000.00 and pick up a dope 04' E46 M3 with SMG II. I will race that CTS-V. Win or lose...the M3 kicks ASS!! Nuff said.

PS - It's kind of like owning a Veyron. If an Enzo pulls up on your ass in the left lane, you just kindly move aside. One word, humble.
I would hesitate to put "M3" and "true-bred" sports car together in the same sentence. Save that terminology for the likes of the Lotus Elise.

I have no doubt that the driving dynamics of the M3 are superior to, and more involving than the CTS V. However, the underpinnings on the Caddy are quite advanced. Are you aware that it sports 14" ventilated Brembos with four-pot aluminum calipers at all four corners? The M3 certainly can't boast that.

Given its size and weight though, the V is more comparable to the M5. Without a doubt it would be faster around the track (faster than the M3 even), the overall driving experience is not as satisfying as that of the M5.

I am not a fan of American cars typically, but must give Caddy its due here. They have built a solid M5 competitor at the M3 price point. It's a good thing for the enthusiast community as a whole.

No need for the CTS V to step out of the left lane for the M3 or the M5 - it will easily run with both.
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Old 01-13-2004, 06:03 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I fnd it interesting that a GM guy did the laps. So these are GM numbers to at least some degree that we are talking about, and we all know they would never embellish the numbers or influence early releases to generate interest. As far as faster I am going to reserve my judgement for now. Maybe we should wait and see, after there have been a few more truley independent tests done by some other publications and "their" drivers. If it will perform like a 3 or 5 then congrats to them. Maybe I will drive one after all Spetsnaz. I'm not sure they are at the dealerships yet though. Might be interesting. Were the motorsport BMW's originally built for BMW racing ambitions? I don't know my BMW history. If so then I would consider that "true-bred" performance car. That's what breeding is. Be carful now, I know where you could go with this. No joke intended. I agree competition is good for the industry. It helps the consumer get a better product at a competitive price.
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Old 01-13-2004, 08:05 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally posted by roloson@Jan 13 2004, 07:43 PM
I fnd it interesting that a GM guy did the laps. So these are GM numbers to at least some degree that we are talking about, and we all know they would never embellish the numbers or influence early releases to generate interest. As far as faster I am going to reserve my judgement for now. Maybe we should wait and see, after there have been a few more truley independent tests done by some other publications and "their" drivers. If it will perform like a 3 or 5 then congrats to them. Maybe I will drive one after all Spetsnaz. I'm not sure they are at the dealerships yet though. Might be interesting. Were the motorsport BMW's originally built for BMW racing ambitions? I don't know my BMW history. If so then I would consider that "true-bred" performance car. That's what breeding is. Be carful now, I know where you could go with this. No joke intended. I agree competition is good for the industry. It helps the consumer get a better product at a competitive price.
It is an interesting point. I too am awaiting independent numbers, although I do suspect they will be quite good - better than the E39 M5.

The BMW "M" (Motorsport Division) was born of racing heritage, yes. And they have created true sports cars - namely the M Roadster, M Coupe and the M1. These cars were designed purely for the fun of driving and nothing else.

I do not classify the M3 or the M5 as pure "sports cars" only because they are also intended to be fully-functional people carriers as well. Yes, they are sporty as hell - both of them, and they will run with a great many of the world's best. To me, this is the beauty of the two cars. Hell, that's why I drive an M3. It's the Jekyll-and-Hyde nature of the beast that draws me to it. It can be a civil daily driver one minute, and a razor-sharp track weapon the next. I have two child seats in the back seat and a twin stroller in the trunk of mine as we speak. They are magnificent cars by virtue of their high-end performance, perfectly balanced with real-world utility.

I will admit to playing devil's advocate a bit when it comes to the CTS V. Mainly because I am glad to see American manufacturers paying attention to the demands of the enthusiast market segment. It is good for all of us in the long run. Don't dismiss it too quickly is all I am saying.
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Old 01-13-2004, 09:06 PM   #11 (permalink)
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fit and finish of both are quite good, overall i belive the M is better in that catagory, and i bet the over all performance is better on M
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