2006 M5 Please Help Dsc Malfunction Or K40/blinder Causing Problems? - BMW Forum - BimmerWerkz.com
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#1 (permalink) Old 06-25-2006, 12:35 AM
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2006 M5 Please Help Dsc Malfunction Or K40/blinder Causing Problems?

Hello all - I'm new at the forums - just took delivery of my '06 M5 on April 7th after waiting for it to be built to my specs in Germany, and have had a nightmare of an experience thus far. The following problems are still undiagnosed, as my local BMW service dept. had my car for 10 working days and was unable to find the problem. I'm at my wits end and am crushed that I can't enjoy this car - any insight or advice is appreciated beyond words....

Upon ignition the following errors start to show up in my idrive display :

Increased Emissions! (this is always first)
DSC Malfunction!
Start-Off Assistance Inactive!
DBC Malfunction!
Engine Malfunction/Reduced Power! (this of course comes with the engine effectively cutting itself in half, so the car's power is completely gone).

What's odd is, the other Idrive status screen shows that all is well, so some part of the computer is very confused - it's unlikely that all of these things are actually wrong with the car, so everyone involved sees this as a communication or software or connection error. However, I took the car to BMW at which time they immediately diagnosed the problem as a bad DSC sensor, which was causing the whole system to go haywire. They replaced the DSC sensor - that didnt solve it. They then replaced the entire control module that's part of the DSC/SMG system - that didn't solve it. They checked all of the wiring - everything ohmed out fine and checked out OK. They re-programmed the software 3 or 4 times - didn't solve it.

After 10 days of being promised my car back, I decided to go in and get the car back from BMW for the weekend last Friday just so we could all clear our heads and regroup. I mentioned that I had the K40 integrated radar detector and the Blinder laser diffusers installed (hard wired not bluetooth) right before the error messages began (in fact it was the day before they started popping up.) The service foreman and I called the company who installed the radar/laser system to find that they wired for power via the brake relay - which is the way they had done it on several M5's with no issue. BMW highly doubted this was the problem, but agreed there was an outside chance due to them just not knowing enough about the car yet - they unhooked the system from power and let me try the car out over the weekend. Well, I had no errors for a week - drove 100's of miles stopping and starting the car 6-8 times a day - no errors, no issues, nothing. So, deductive reasoning would lead one to believe that the laser/radar system was improperly installed and was the root of the issues.

So, I went back to the company who installed my radar/laser, explained the problem, at which time they thought that the only potential problem might be a backflow through the wiring causing the computer to go haywire. So, they attached a diode to prevent the backflow and sent me on my way. Two hours later, bam! Every error message popped back up and almost caused me to just drive the thing off the bridge with me securely fastened in. I've since de-powered the laser/radar system to no avail - it's completely unwired for power and Im still getting these errors and subsequent power-downs every time I start the car.

Has anyone else run into this type of situation? BMW Service has gone as far to call BMW Corporate to admit defeat and ask for help, but have received no course of action - so we're stuck here. (well they claim they called I cant vouch for sure.) I've waited my my entire professional life to buy an M5, only to be cursed with a car that now drives like a $100,000 Corolla. Someone - Anyone - please help!

DK
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#2 (permalink) Old 06-25-2006, 12:57 AM
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sounds to me like it all stems from the aftermarket accessories. If you removed the accessory from power but have not been back to the dealer to have the codes cleared then this is why the lights are still coming on. They dont normally just go out on their own.

What I dont understand is why they decided to use the brake relay to get power for the system. This seems like a very bad idea. There are several better places to get power from, the best place being an accessory pin in the fusebox which is made for installing additional components. All they would have to do is install another pin for the power out and a fuse.

Im not familiar with the exact components that you have however I have installed some Valentine 1's and a couple Lidateks. Niether of those had any reason to be tapping in to th brake relay so unless your specific hardware does take it back to the installers and tell them to get it off the brake circuit and on to a accessory power which is made for these sorts of things.
Good luck,

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#3 (permalink) Old 06-25-2006, 01:00 AM
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is there a correct or incorrect order in which things need to happen (i.e. re-wire the radar/laser first or after BMW re-programs?)

thanks so much for the insight I'll pass that along to the installers - much appreciated!

dk
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#4 (permalink) Old 06-26-2006, 08:04 PM
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give it back under lemon car law
get naother m5


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#5 (permalink) Old 06-27-2006, 01:06 AM
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you should 1st rewire or remove the equipment then take it to the dealer to have the faults cleared. Shouldnt need any reprogramming as that was already done.
Good luck,

BTW Lemon law would only apply if it is proven that the issues are not related to the aftermarket accessories being installed.

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#6 (permalink) Old 06-27-2006, 01:27 AM
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there is no reason for a k40 2000 to need to tap into the brake wire.

it should be sourcing a 12v constant and a 12v accessory, something that is fused(preferably with a 1-3amp fuse).

in newer bmws/luxo cars sometimes finding a switched 12v accesory wire can be hard because evertying is running off databus these days, have them tap into a switched 12v under the hood @ the fuse box. that should eliminate all problems.
i know i had problems doing a k40 when the xlr-v came out, but you just have to be meticulous and find the right wire that isnt a data wire..

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#7 (permalink) Old 06-27-2006, 07:47 AM
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dealer it... sick that you have an M5 tho...

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#8 (permalink) Old 06-27-2006, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DREWK
Hello all - I'm new at the forums - just took delivery of my '06 M5 on April 7th after waiting for it to be built to my specs in Germany, and have had a nightmare of an experience thus far. The following problems are still undiagnosed, as my local BMW service dept. had my car for 10 working days and was unable to find the problem. I'm at my wits end and am crushed that I can't enjoy this car - any insight or advice is appreciated beyond words....

Upon ignition the following errors start to show up in my idrive display :

Increased Emissions! (this is always first)
DSC Malfunction!
Start-Off Assistance Inactive!
DBC Malfunction!
Engine Malfunction/Reduced Power! (this of course comes with the engine effectively cutting itself in half, so the car's power is completely gone).

What's odd is, the other Idrive status screen shows that all is well, so some part of the computer is very confused - it's unlikely that all of these things are actually wrong with the car, so everyone involved sees this as a communication or software or connection error. However, I took the car to BMW at which time they immediately diagnosed the problem as a bad DSC sensor, which was causing the whole system to go haywire. They replaced the DSC sensor - that didnt solve it. They then replaced the entire control module that's part of the DSC/SMG system - that didn't solve it. They checked all of the wiring - everything ohmed out fine and checked out OK. They re-programmed the software 3 or 4 times - didn't solve it.

After 10 days of being promised my car back, I decided to go in and get the car back from BMW for the weekend last Friday just so we could all clear our heads and regroup. I mentioned that I had the K40 integrated radar detector and the Blinder laser diffusers installed (hard wired not bluetooth) right before the error messages began (in fact it was the day before they started popping up.) The service foreman and I called the company who installed the radar/laser system to find that they wired for power via the brake relay - which is the way they had done it on several M5's with no issue. BMW highly doubted this was the problem, but agreed there was an outside chance due to them just not knowing enough about the car yet - they unhooked the system from power and let me try the car out over the weekend. Well, I had no errors for a week - drove 100's of miles stopping and starting the car 6-8 times a day - no errors, no issues, nothing. So, deductive reasoning would lead one to believe that the laser/radar system was improperly installed and was the root of the issues.

So, I went back to the company who installed my radar/laser, explained the problem, at which time they thought that the only potential problem might be a backflow through the wiring causing the computer to go haywire. So, they attached a diode to prevent the backflow and sent me on my way. Two hours later, bam! Every error message popped back up and almost caused me to just drive the thing off the bridge with me securely fastened in. I've since de-powered the laser/radar system to no avail - it's completely unwired for power and Im still getting these errors and subsequent power-downs every time I start the car.

Has anyone else run into this type of situation? BMW Service has gone as far to call BMW Corporate to admit defeat and ask for help, but have received no course of action - so we're stuck here. (well they claim they called I cant vouch for sure.) I've waited my my entire professional life to buy an M5, only to be cursed with a car that now drives like a $100,000 Corolla. Someone - Anyone - please help!

DK

not for nothing but that " corolla" off the showroom floor will never see the dealer again for problems that your experiencing. lol!

Back on topic, if it was in the states then you could probably covered under the lemon law if it was proven that it was the cars electonics , BUT..... your stupid Radar/Laser Jammer installer could have costed you allot of money and voided your warranty. I would be getting my money refunded from the installer and go somehwere else that probably is a little more expirienced. I know that if it was here at my dealer, i would have been FUC#$! If they found out that i installed something not
from the factory , then it would have been money out of my procket. It would have been in favor of the dealer.

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Last edited by boostinsixtwintturbo; 06-27-2006 at 08:55 PM.
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#9 (permalink) Old 06-29-2006, 10:00 PM
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UPDATE: BMW is fully aware of everything thats been done to the car, and believe it or not decided that re-wiring the K-40's/Blinder's power source from the brake relay to the 12-volt ignition switch (or something along those lines) was the way to go. They have a motor sports dept. at this particular dealership, whose tech claimed to have successfully installed this very system in 2 other '06 M5's without any incident. BMW re-wired it, reset all of the faults from the system, and drove the car for a few miles, stopped/started a few times - all with no faults whatsoever. I go pick up the car, and not 5 miles down the road the christmas tree of misery lit up all at once. Now I'm right back at square one.

One thing I didnt mention earlier, was that when these faults first began to show, they were few and far between - and would reset themselves when I turned off the car. While I was waiting for the DSC sensor to come in from backorder, the car ran at 100% with no faults whatsoever for about 2 weeks straight. One day they just decided to come back - and always in the same exact order as the time before. Does any of this make any sense at all? It's starting to sound like it's the car and not the K40/Blinders - although the car ran fine for a week when the system was de-powered and the car's software was reset. I'm at a total loss - as is my service dept. I'm seriously considering calling BMW Corporate and getting them involved - does anyone have any experience getting things done that way?

I'm way past "lost it" at this point - I'm open for any and all suggestions.

Thanks - DK
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#10 (permalink) Old 06-29-2006, 10:01 PM
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and yes Im in the States - wonder if a call to BMW would give any chance of them replacing the vehicle for me - hell it's my third BMW in 7 years.
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#11 (permalink) Old 06-30-2006, 01:20 AM
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If you are in the states then an accessory such as this would never be authorized by BMWNA. The dealership is really not doing the right thing by re-wiring or making any sort of repairs with the accessory still hooked up. the wise thing to do would be to unhook the accessory completely, clear all faults, then see what happens. then if the faults still reoccur then they will know the problem exists in the car, not the accessory. That is the ONLY way to determine the cause. At this point (with the accessory removed) they should troubleshoot and correct the problem and only after the issue is fixed should they or the original installer reconnect the accessory. This is common sense and it is also the correct protocol to follow. Once the accessory is removed from the system then you and the dealer have resources through BMW to get the problem rectified. The 1st step would be the dealer contacting BMW technical support via their online support system. The second step would be getting their BMW regional field service engineer to come and look at the car if necessary. These are things you should be asking the service manager if they are doing and if they are not doing it then you can call customer care and get them involved to make sure your dealer is following protocol and using their resources to the best of their abilities. First thing is first though, get the accessory disconnected or removed, then go from there.
Good luck,

DT




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#12 (permalink) Old 06-30-2006, 03:01 AM
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thats exactly what I'll do then - seems logical enough to me Im wondering why they havent suggested it - Ive been clear that the car is obviously more important than the damn k40 and the blinders, and that Ive lost interest in them b/c of this - so they had a window of opportunity to suggest it - thanks a ton I hope this will get me on the right track.

Have a good one - thanks again.

dk
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#13 (permalink) Old 06-30-2006, 11:29 PM
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UPDATE #2:
I had BMW un-wire the K40 and Blinders today (there wasn't time to take every piece, every wire, etc. out, but the power was un-wired so there was no current whatsoever coming from either system). After that they cleared all of the faults and sent me on my way. I was literally 500 ft out of the parking lot when the all-too-familiar chiming of the faults began - one by one - same order as always - same timing as always.
Increased Emissions! (my BMW service dept says this is not an indication of emissions, but that the car knows it's not right and is telling me theres the added risk of emissions - anyone verify that?)
then DSC Malfunction! (I had my DSC turned off in my iDrive - how can it malfunction if I had it off?)
and 2 seconds later my favorite one of all "Engine Malfunction! Reduced Power! (BMW Service tells me this isnt an indication of the engine malfunctioning, rather the car safeguarding me and itself due to the DSC malfunction - but the DSC has nothing to do with the engine, why is it telling me I have engine faults - does that make sense?)
and finally Start-Off Assistance Inactive! (I know what this one does - no big deal - makes sense that it would be tied into the DSC)

Round and Round we go - now I'm scheduled to take the car back to them next Wednesday and leave it for the rest of the week. That'll be 45-60 days since the first light went off with no solution and no end in sight. I'm really disappointed in BMW - you would think that when you spend over $100,000 on a car, you would be treated with just a little bit more urgency and effort.
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#14 (permalink) Old 07-01-2006, 01:50 PM
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seriouslly call them up and just get a new one and dont put a jammer in it, just get a valentine 1 that goes in your cig lighter so u dont have any messy wire problems



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