2000 Corvette To 2005 Bmw M3 - BMW Forum - BimmerWerkz.com
M-Series (M1, M3, M5, M6) General M-Series Discussion - If it does not fit into a more specific M Category above, please place it in here. In addition, previously archived M-Series discussion is located in this section.

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#1 (permalink) Old 01-21-2005, 10:32 PM
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Background: I have an Acura Integra as a daily driver. My second car is a 2000 Corvette Conv, 6 speed that is going up for sale this spring. I am looking for a replacement and am seriously considering the 2005 M3. The vette has been a great car, no complaints. I'm just looking for a change.

Question for M3 owners: Based on your experience, what options/models would you select/or not, and why?
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#2 (permalink) Old 01-21-2005, 11:40 PM
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Have you consider the new vette. I would pick the '05 vette over a '05 M3.
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#3 (permalink) Old 01-22-2005, 12:03 AM
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You said you were happy with your Vette, and obviously must like your Integra or you wouldn't drive it everyday. If when taking into to consideration the best each car has to offer you would come to the following conclusion:

Integra: Ride comfort, tossability, ergonomics, winding out the revs, stopping power, and fuel economy.

Vette: Brutte power and acceleration, ride height, firmer suspension, big sticky tires, and attention grabbing ability.

Then I would say sell both an buy and e46 ///M3. It's a low budget supercar that can be driven daily. Not only does it embody all of the aforementioned, it will also have better braking than either, much better ergonomics, better build quality, and be all together more enjoyable to drive IMO.

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#4 (permalink) Old 01-22-2005, 12:36 AM
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m3 is just a sick car... Vette's have all the power but who cares when you can't stop and it breaks when stopping! BMW is the ultimate driving machine

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#5 (permalink) Old 01-22-2005, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Question for M3 owners: Based on your experience, what options/models would you select/or not, and why?
First of all, just like to let you know that my Dad has an 03' M3 Cab. So I speak from some experience.

-tranny: since your vette was a 6 speed, I would go with the 6 speed standard tranny on the m3...my dads M3 has SMG, which I love but it is a way personal choice between the two
-Packages: BMW just came out with a package called the Competition package, it looks amazing, it gives you the CSL wheels, bigger brakes, ///M track mode, and some other great options for a sports car.

This guy from e46fanatics.com just got one HERE

Dinan Stg 2 Phoenix Yellow M3
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#6 (permalink) Old 01-22-2005, 04:56 AM
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Both cars are fast in a straight line, but the vette's cornering is no way as good as the M3's.

<a href='http://www.photobox.co.uk/album/1118083' target='_blank'>Check out my ride!!!</a>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>(From Family Guy) Brian to peter: Well peter you've only got a couple hours left. If your gonna pull a party outta your ass you might wanna stand up!</div>
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#7 (permalink) Old 01-25-2005, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by PJV 528@Jan 22 2005, 06:56 AM
Both cars are fast in a straight line, but the vette's cornering is no way as good as the M3's.
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Not to knock on the M but a Corvette is quite capable in the handling category. Car and Driver rated the Corvette to out-handle the M3, and that was the C5. The new C6 has a better skidpad and slalom scores than the M3. The brake sizes are the same but the C6 weighs 200lbs less. I'm not saying the C6 is a better car, but for performance, the Corvette is superior.

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#8 (permalink) Old 01-25-2005, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BMW@JMU@Jan 25 2005, 12:55 PM
Not to knock on the M but a Corvette is quite capable in the handling category. Car and Driver rated the Corvette to out-handle the M3, and that was the C5. The new C6 has a better skidpad and slalom scores than the M3. The brake sizes are the same but the C6 weighs 200lbs less. I'm not saying the C6 is a better car, but for performance, the Corvette is superior.
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Horseshit. Numbers are numbers. That's all they are. The new Vette has very wide sticky tires, and I'm sure high lateral G's are the result. But that doesn't have dick to do with the inherent predictablility of the car's handling characteristics. I've been around these cars, and hp is a given, being fast around a racetrack (or the city streets) is quite another. These cars aren't nearly as agile, that's not opinion but fact. BMW has spent years developing their chasis and suspension conponents. Chevy spent that time tryng to ring out as much hp and tq as they can out of the smallblock350. That's just the case. I'm sure they're getting better (albeit they still use leaf springs used ), but they have a ways to go before they reach that of the modern day M3. It's not just lateral G's that are important, it's the ability to establish a car's limits and count on them being consistent. That's just something BMW, Porsche, and Audi have on the American counterparts.

I don't give a damn what some magazine says about the new vette upon initial test drive, they are obviously still enamored by the initial grin factor of those cars. And for those of you that would counter with "top gear's" fast lap in the new vette, well, that's just one car, one day, on one track. Let's see how fast the new vette is around the Nurburghring compared to the new M3.

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#9 (permalink) Old 01-25-2005, 08:00 PM
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Dude, first of numbers ARE numbers and that was all your opinion of the two cars. Numbers don't lie...that's why reputable institutions use them. I don't know how you can say that all Chevrolet did was work on an engine while BMW just worked on suspension. The six in a M3 is an engineering feat along with its suspension, but I would in no way cut a car short that has been around for engine performance reasons from '53 to now. I'm sure in their conquest for engine power they didn't forget to add a suspension. This is not a Mustang. The fact is that the slalom speed is faster in a Corvette, showing it doesn't just make left turns. And who cares what rear-end suspension they use? If it works then it does!

Truthfully, I'm astonished that you believe that the guys testing these cars don't know what they're doing. My guess is they have much more experience with a car on a track that you and I both. Are you trying to say that if the guys at Car and Driver and Top Gear had more time with the two cars, they could make the M3 perform better?

...And this Corvette isn't the best they have to offer. They still have the Z06!

Although the Corvette, in my opinion, is a better performance machine, I will never buy one...I love BMW's. I would rather have the appearance, drivability, and back seat (tiny as it is) of an M3 over a Corvette any day. But just because you can't accept that some "redneck race car" can outperform a sophisticated German automobile, don't go spouting comments that are based on, well, just one persons opinion, one day, at one time.

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#10 (permalink) Old 01-27-2005, 12:29 AM
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Well, I must applaud your retort. No attacks, just the defense of a mag, a show, and a car you love.

And your defense is justified. Afterall, I would probably defend two of the above three if someone I didn't know was attempting to attack them. But fact of the matter is, I wasn't. It was more or less your interpretation of the numbers churned out by those reputable sources.

When I said numbers are numbers, the intended idea to be conjured up, was the fact that a few numbers don't tell the whole story. A measure of lateral G's doesn't tell how a car will react when attacking a corner. Numbers also won't tell if a car tends to exhibit snap oversteer (clears throat corvette clears throat again). What I'm getting at, is that numbers are great for magazines and comparisons, but they won't illustrate what a real world driving experience might entail.

I'm not saying that a Corvette is a big piece of crap that should be avoided at all costs. I'm merely saying that spending a week in each of the aforementioned would be a much better judge of which car is "better" as opposed to reading a few numbers on a piece of paper.

One definition of what makes one car better than the other, might be to say which car is more appealing to more people. As we are talking about performance machines, you might ask the questions:

"If the average Joe climbed in each car, which would they be able to drive faster with less seat time?"

"Which car would be more confidence inspiring, and be able to be pushed to further limits without the feeling of being on the brink of loosing control?"

The mere fact that BMW has a more responsible approach to car building would lead me to maintain my origional claim. You might say, they just make a safer car, but when pushing triple digit speeds, maybe that's as important as lateral G's, maybe more.

Like I said, I've been around these cars. I've driven the Z06, and found out very quickly how the designer's priorities where laid. Fast first, handle second, brake third. This is completely backwards from the way the perfect driver's car should be.

I'm sorry but I have a hard time respecting a car that is made of plastic, shares interior components with a Lumina, feels like a runaway train at speed, and has a learinig curve as big as a jack hammer.

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#11 (permalink) Old 01-28-2005, 12:20 PM
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Alright, I understand what you're getting at. All I was trying to say in my original post is that a Corvette is not some piece of crap. Truthfully, I think its probably one the few good cars that have come out of the States and it is comparable to many in Europe. I just see a whole lot of unrealistic bashing going on in the form of guys with bimmers dismantling all other cars. I agree that BMW has made some of the best cars with regard to all around performance, luxary, and style, but they are not God's gift to man. Yes, a Corvette is made like an American car, and it does perform quite well in a line, but don't be ignorant and bash every
car out there that isn't a BMW. A real car enthusiast would appreciate a car for what it is and realize that different cars are made for different tastes. All I'm saying is give a car some respect.

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#12 (permalink) Old 01-28-2005, 12:56 PM
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Agreed. Honestly, the M3 and the Vette are cars that are probably compared to each other too often. While they do share some similarities, they truely are two different cars with two different buyers in mind.

I agree that as far as performance is concerned, the Corvette is a bargain. It goes really fast really quickly for half the price of most of it's competitors. I just get really tired of young folks (not saying your one of those) relying too much on numbers. A huge car freak myself, I've owned and driven a lot of cars from all over the world, and the driving experience will offset performance numbers anyday. Heck, my sister has a new Toyota Spyder, and I'm positive I could beat a lot of cars around a track that would dominate it on a piece of paper!

And yes, I agree many around these parts are Bimmer blind. But can you blame them. Many here are on their first or second car, and as cultish as BMW cars can make one, such an opinion is to be expected. Personally, I'm a Porsche guy. Easily the best cars I've owned, and once I am in better financial shape (had to make some sacrifices and step down to a Bimmer), I certainly plan to trade in my Roundel for the sexier Stuttgart crest.

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#13 (permalink) Old 01-29-2005, 03:29 PM
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I know what you mean, but numbers can give you a decent idea of what a car is capable of. For myself, I'm only on my second car and I've definitely been influenced by the bimmer. What kind of Porsches have you had? My friend’s dad has a mid-90’s Targa. It was a nice car. I probably won’t get too much into them until a friend of mine gets one. He’s in pharmacy school and his first car on the way out is either a GT2 or 3…now those are real cars.

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#14 (permalink) Old 01-30-2005, 11:28 PM
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My dream car as a kid was a 951. Bought it on my 20th birthday. Great car. Dad had a 911 once upon a time, but left a lasting impression on me. I will own a 1986-1988 930 sooner than later.

Yeah, talking about vettes, check these pics out. Buddy of mine, (I was using his dyno) happens to be very competitive in SCCA. Won the whole damn thing a few years back. Loves to race....
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#15 (permalink) Old 01-31-2005, 12:27 AM
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That great that you were able to get a hold of a car like that so young. I'm going to have to wait at least two more years or until I get out of grad school (who knows how long....masters or phd?). Either way, its an M3 for me.

Wow, that guy's Corvettes are pretty nice. How wide were those tires??? They appear to be pretty sticky. By the way, what did you end up with at the wheels?...it looks like you've done some pretty significant mods.

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