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Forced Induction Talk about turbo and superchargers.

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#1 (permalink) Old 04-15-2006, 07:28 AM
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turbo max pressure

My plans to supercharge my bimmer flew away when my friends dad gave me an old SAAB turbo for free:lol:

Question is...how much do i dare push it without any internal uppgrades onthe engine? thinking of getting an intercooler and so on...but not buying new gaskets and camsahft and all those costly things:P

what ive heard until now is that i should be able to push it up to 0,7bar...aprox 7psi

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#2 (permalink) Old 04-15-2006, 07:44 PM
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Are you talking about the saab or bmw?

Well if its the saab then go here, theres plenty of knowledge, oh by the way... google is your best friend. http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/index.php < -------forums


http://www.saabcentral.com/index.htm <-----home page
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#3 (permalink) Old 04-16-2006, 04:34 AM
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nononono...ive got a SAAB turbo which is gonna be put into my BMW:P so question was how high boost the stock internals will take

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#4 (permalink) Old 04-16-2006, 07:48 AM
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depends on how much you're willing to dump into fuel mods. I got away with quite a bit of boost on my mule. 214whp and 250wtq. Stock high mileage engine and the motor itself did just fine, it was the cooling system that didn't like it.


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#5 (permalink) Old 04-16-2006, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saggis
nononono...ive got a SAAB turbo which is gonna be put into my BMW:P so question was how high boost the stock internals will take

I dont even know how big that turbo is from the saab,is it a T3? I think that turbo maybe too small for the bmw. Is it going on a 325?

Maybe Eric can chime in on stock internals.


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#6 (permalink) Old 04-17-2006, 11:45 AM
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its pretty small i think:/ but its only for a 520 so should be enough...i think its been in at least a 2L saab...maybe a 1,8:/ ill try to find out

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#7 (permalink) Old 04-17-2006, 05:20 PM
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the saabs used a straight T3 on the 1986, then from 87 until they upgraded to the 2.3 Ecotec and 2.0 Direct Ignition motors, they used a T25. They also used the T25 on the 2.0L DI engine and used a GT25 on the 2.3 DI engine that went into the Aero. The largest turbo you're going to find on a saab is a GT25. Not large enough for more than around 8psi, and even that is probably pushing the turbo out of it's efficiency range. My reccommendations for turbos for BMWs go as follows:

For all 6-cyl BMWs:
for a max boost pressure (70%thermal efficiency) of 15psi: GT30R (sweet spot at around 10psi)
for a max boost pressure (71% thermal efficiency) of 19psi: GT35R (sweet spot at around 15psi)
for a max boost pressure (68% thermal efficiency) of 25psi: GT40R (sweet spot at around 20psi)

I'm most likely going to run a GT30R at around 14.7psi (1BAR) on my frankenmotor.


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#8 (permalink) Old 04-17-2006, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrhaapi
the saabs used a straight T3 on the 1986, then from 87 until they upgraded to the 2.3 Ecotec and 2.0 Direct Ignition motors, they used a T25. They also used the T25 on the 2.0L DI engine and used a GT25 on the 2.3 DI engine that went into the Aero. The largest turbo you're going to find on a saab is a GT25. Not large enough for more than around 8psi, and even that is probably pushing the turbo out of it's efficiency range. My reccommendations for turbos for BMWs go as follows:

For all 6-cyl BMWs:
for a max boost pressure (70%thermal efficiency) of 15psi: GT30R (sweet spot at around 10psi)
for a max boost pressure (71% thermal efficiency) of 19psi: GT35R (sweet spot at around 15psi)
for a max boost pressure (68% thermal efficiency) of 25psi: GT40R (sweet spot at around 20psi)

I'm most likely going to run a GT30R at around 14.7psi (1BAR) on my frankenmotor.


you are correct, and i would suggest the gt30 also, its efficiency range is very good with the powerband of the car, plus you get more low end torque sooner since you achieve boost so quickly . Also i heard that the T3's were running out of air on the old saabs at 5k, so i would really stay away from installing that on any car with a 2.5 or bigger, shit, even a t25 is SMALL! ,

Your info is correct, i just didnt know all the facts, so i dont want to mislead here.

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#9 (permalink) Old 04-18-2006, 11:06 AM
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So basicly i should be crying over the fact that im getting a Turbo for free rather than making the raindance ill see if i can find out if its a GT25...but if i havent missunderstood even that should be to small for my engine? i dont need a 2bar pressure, only what it would give me but if it wont give me anything...well alot of work for nothing

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#10 (permalink) Old 04-18-2006, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saggis
So basicly i should be crying over the fact that im getting a Turbo for free rather than making the raindance ill see if i can find out if its a GT25...but if i havent missunderstood even that should be to small for my engine? i dont need a 2bar pressure, only what it would give me but if it wont give me anything...well alot of work for nothing


your turbo wont be a gt25 because it was available for newer models , if im not mistaken.

Listen.. take your time, save your money and get a kit thats available for the car(e36) or better yet do more research on e36's that are turboed. You can ask here or look on other forums for your answers. Theres no reason to rush in and install a turbo thats not going to yield good results, and its going to be time waisted , you still need to fabricate so much other things , and other factors that im not going to get in detail.
Its not going to just "drop" in.

Lurk more, ask more questions, You will learn allot of things , im still learning too. This is my first german car period.

cheers.

P.S.

Its not allot of work for nothing,
Allot of work for nothing would have been fabricating everything you needed, did everything, and wasted allot of money for something that was not going to work out at the end, like maybe gaining "20 rwhp" (hypothetically speaking).

So no my friend, you have not waisted anytime becuase you are seeking infromation, questions, and getting information before damaging your car and your wallet .
Your doing the right thing. Just do it right the first time.

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#11 (permalink) Old 04-19-2006, 06:11 AM
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good news but sad news you tell teh truth as one would say:/

well...ill go on a hunt for a gt35 or something in that direction so i'll have plenty of power to use beyond my goal for the moment

but thanks anyways lots of good info

although i still dont think i gotthe answer to my question, how much pressure can a stock engine take? E34 520i straight 6 -94 (K&N bicone)

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#12 (permalink) Old 04-19-2006, 12:10 PM
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Stock, i'd say not to go past 8-9 psi. This won't be a cheap project. There's a lot of parts you need and going cheap on the turbo would result in lackluster performance and you might wonder why you spent thousands for sucha little gain. If you want to turbo you should get a turbo that you think would be the best for your goals, not just what is handed to you.


Also, 0.7 bar is not 7 psi.


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#13 (permalink) Old 04-20-2006, 08:17 AM
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oki true...was just a good oppertunity...but i guess ill go with a gt35 then...if anybodys selling TELL ME:P

yes i know but a pretty okey aprox of it though?

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#14 (permalink) Old 04-20-2006, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saggis
oki true...was just a good oppertunity...but i guess ill go with a gt35 then...if anybodys selling TELL ME:P

yes i know but a pretty okey aprox of it though?
No idea where to get a turbo, but get this manifold. http://www.pure-pf.com/webshop/ppf_w...roducts_id=220
Best price on a tubular manifold I've seen anywhere. Equates to about $725USD but you're swedish so 6500SEK. Mate that manifold with a good Intercooler, good intercooler piping, 550cc/min injectors and a GT30R (they retail for around a thousand USD) and you're set for up to 525bhp. I'm sure you don't want to go over that. Well maybe. The swedes are crazy from what I've seen. PPF is a good company to get most of your stuff from. I've had good dealings with them and a project for a friend of mine's S50, and another friend of mine is using their manifold wiht a GT40R for his M20 turbo project. Very very reputable, very reliable. I believe they've got a car that's been running that manifold for more than 4 years now with no issues. They mate it with a 38mm TIAL wastegate and most likely a TIAL BOV.


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#15 (permalink) Old 04-21-2006, 04:46 AM
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THATS LIKE THE BEST ANSWERE IN THE WORLD

*calls them asap to ask about price for parts and delivery!*
SUPER THANKS!D

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