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Old 09-08-2004, 02:25 AM   #1 (permalink)
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tonight I just took stunt as fast as I do normally in daytime. Pretty good when you consider that most of the corners are pretty tight so you lose track of where you are in some of the corners.

I'm predicting the corners alot better now, not quite into the full on "I know this course" thing, but I can get the setup lines right and the gear selection right most of the time, I've gone deep into some corners in third and needed to heel toe into second and trailbrake through past the apex and carefully reintroduce hard throttle, but not to be fast, more to save myself from a bad corner setup.

On the good corners, I'm early braking, either rev matching a downshift or just lifting into the corner, then applying hard throttle past the apex. The deep corner entry approach isn't going to work without much much much beefier brakes, and big fat hairy balls to match. I know in the back of my mind it's faster, because it's how I always brake in GT3, but in real life it's very hairy and it makes your heart beat ireggularly. I'm good at left foot braking to tighten a line but when I have to shift deep in a corner, I'm always afraid I'm going to jam hard on the brake thinking it's the clutch.

If you're still with me on this, congratulations. Anybody who runs stunt regularly and can give me some tips, please lay them out here. Keep in mind that my car is more about intense grip than breaking loose and sliding, and I've still got some mods to do...
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Old 09-08-2004, 03:06 AM   #2 (permalink)
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INTENSE GRIP!!!!!!!!!! My car measured 1.012G (Lateral) while one mulholland. My friend has to hold onto the open window sill on the door when he drives with me cause I don't have those upper handles and although I have a very nice recaro racing seat for myself my passenger has a very unsupportive stock seat.

So he holds the door and reads what I can get on the meter

You just have to drive ALOT!!! I have been driving all the canyons in the Stunt Road/Mullholland/Encinal/Decker area since I got my permit at fifteenl, and I know the entire pass by heart. It makes the biggest difference, especially at night cause you can drive alot harder.

Good lights help majorly at night as you can see the turn alot deeper.

It's a good idea to watch the center line as it connects the mountain. You can thus watch ahead to see how tight the road is carving in. You can also know exactly when it's safe to get on the gas. Helps to watch out for those decreasing radius turns. hmm wonder if anyone got this far?
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Old 09-08-2004, 03:21 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I'm still with ya there.

Do you use conventional braking techniques or radical late braking/ trailbraking/ left foot braking techniques? Do you brake in setup or do you brake deep? Do you lift through the turns and use brakes as a last resort?
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Old 09-08-2004, 01:09 PM   #4 (permalink)
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by the way, I have a friend in a datsun 510 (the 2002's arch rival from the old touring car championship days) and I've always been curious as to which car is faster. He's running an L20b with the 200sx 5spd dogleg tranny. Other than that, he's lost his back seat and I think that's about it.

We should set you guys up in a race some time, just to see if there's a machine that's clearly better or if it's a driver's race like I think it probably will be...
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Old 09-08-2004, 01:35 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Well first off, since I was driving my dad's yamaha racing go-kart with 18 HP and about 150 pounds before I ever got my license, I learned the importance of weight shifting. With the kart, if you go into a turn and don't use at least slight trailbraking and get on the gas right before the apex the thing will just plow like mad, but take the turn and shift the weight just right, and you can rip through any turn.

So before I ever sat in the drivers seat of a car I already knew the importance of weight shifting, which in my opinion is the hardest thing to master and the most important thing to going fast.

Now since my 02 is very balanced like the kart (very close to 50/50), and since it is underpowered, I learned from the begining to carry my speed through the turns.

Depending on the speed of the turn depends if I will use a trailbraking technique or just lift off. I usually do about 70 % of my braking before I start my turn in then right when I'm starting to turn in, I release most of the brake pressure and just feather the brakes to transfer just as much weight as needed to get the front tires to stick just enough, no need to transfer excess weight to the front as it will be needed in the back on the exit to keep the back from coming out. So I just tansfer as little weight as needed to get the front tires to grip.

I don't use crazy late breaking techniques. However, as I mentioned before the road I usually run (from westlake bvd. all the way through mullholland to las virgines) I have completely memorized so I know exactly which turn is next, and I can drive pretty deep into turns before braking simply cause I where the turn is going.

I sometimes use left foot trailbraking if needed to help the car turn in, but usually its not needed. That kind of thing is something thats really great to know you can do and to practice some incase you need it, but only use it if its necessary. don't go left foot braking everyturn. it shouldn't be needed so try to go without it.

Im sure your well aware of this, but the most important thing to being fast is being smooth. Never make quick jerky brake movements, or quickly lift off or get back on the throttle. You always want to lead into all your pedal and steering wheel movements.

Hope this was interesting to read. What kind of technique do you use?
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Old 09-08-2004, 01:37 PM   #6 (permalink)
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about the 510....thats way cool. I was also looking into one of those, but of course had to go with the BMW. Its much better made, but in a race your correct. It would be all down to the driver since it sounds like his is pretty stock as well as mine
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Old 09-08-2004, 03:04 PM   #7 (permalink)
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My car on stunt one night just before sunset. Kinda random, but i just stumbled across it on my computer and thought I'd post it since we're talking about stunt.
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Old 09-08-2004, 05:01 PM   #8 (permalink)
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When I know the course, I mostly early brake into the turn, downshift if necessary, either lift or coast through the apex and gently reintroduce throttle as I pass the apex. I only use left foot braking to correct a mistake, or if I have to tighten a line to avoid an obstacle (i.e. oncoming traffic...)

When I'm racing in GT3, I usually use cars with killer brakes (calsonic skyline, Arta NSX, Tom's Supra, etc) and use left foot braking (no clutch in GT3 so no worries about slamming on the wrong pedal) deeeeeeep into the corner, with a smooth transition through braking into hard accelleration. This technique really allows you to fly through a turn without dropping revs so it's great for narrow powerbanded cars, but it really eats your brakes.

In real life, unless you have HUGE fade free brakes, left foot braking is a bad idea as a regular technique. Like I said before, I'm still playing some parts of stunt by ear, so I haven't gotten down to a tried and true technique yet... most likely my lines will keep changing until I find something that works.
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Old 09-08-2004, 06:09 PM   #9 (permalink)
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yup, just takes practice prcatice and more practice. How long have you been driving stunt?

I just got F & R strut bars but only put the front on, and since its been on (a few weeks) I can drive a lot deeper into turns and the front just sticks. but I definately need to put the back one on cause right now the front is much stiffer than the back and you really have to fight it to keep from understeeering, where before you could easily avoid it. Hopefully when i put the back one on it will even it out more. i suspect this will happen.
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Old 09-08-2004, 06:52 PM   #10 (permalink)
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In the bimmer I've run it maybe 5 times or so... I always do the uphill, never push on the downhill. In my saab and riding as a passenger in other people's cars I've done stunt maybe 8 times... I've got a fucking hectic schedule (only one day off a week...) and so I mostly hit it on saturdays or when I'm off of work.
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Old 09-08-2004, 07:13 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Good conversation... I enjoyed reading it... thanks

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Old 09-12-2004, 10:26 PM   #12 (permalink)
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That all sounds like so much fun One thing I love about the pedal placement is that it makes heel and toe downshifting so easy
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Old 09-13-2004, 02:41 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I heel and toe and double clutch every downshift that I make. Its the only way
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