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#1 (permalink) Old 01-06-2004, 12:10 AM
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///Mpower the future is an unknown quantity at this point
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I guess all that past-recognition of BMW has gotten to there heads.
Now, they're letting the other car companies catch, and surpass there
cars, for the same, or less of the price. Here is one of the many
examples.
http://www.mg-rover.com/content/mg/en_GB/Z...ztchallenge.jsp
Okay, now there's also a good argument that because it was a 318 is why it lost,
but we're also looking at pricing here. BMW's just don't perform as well as there
price-tags look... It's a shame, and I hope BMW plans to do something about it very soon.

Ford… atleast they circled the problem...
Hey, didn’t they do that with bmw too?...
There’s a difference though...
Ford’s problem is they can’t perform...
Bimmer’s problem is they do it too well!
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#2 (permalink) Old 01-06-2004, 12:44 AM
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2.0 v4 vs a 2.5 v6.....not fare at all....the cars are totally different
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#3 (permalink) Old 01-06-2004, 12:55 AM
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yeah, it is pretty unfair. close to a 50hp gap. I4 vs V6, thats a pretty bad comparison. Price wise, yeah its pretty close. But MG is a pretty typical car in europe, like ford or honda here in the US.

if you want to compare that, here is a better comparison:

330i vs C320 Sport Sedan.
-Both are 6 cylinder engines.
-330i is a 3 liter 225hp | C320 is a 3.2 liter 215hp
-0-60, 330i takes it at 5.9, vs C320 at 6.8 (both manual)
-and with all that, MSRP the BMW is about $1000 less than the Benz.
-and im pretty sure a 330i can outhandle a C320.
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#4 (permalink) Old 01-06-2004, 01:04 AM
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Yeah it's a pretty unfair comparison. Definetly, plus in all regards the MG's look like ass compared to the BMW's :P.
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#5 (permalink) Old 01-06-2004, 02:06 AM
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///Mpower the future is an unknown quantity at this point
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally posted by woobiee@Jan 6 2004, 01:35 AM
2.0 v4 vs a 2.5 v6.....not fare at all....the cars are totally different
woobiee Posted: Jan 6 2004, 01:35 AM

yeah, it is pretty unfair. close to a 50hp gap. I4 vs V6, thats a pretty bad comparison. Price wise, yeah its pretty close. But MG is a pretty typical car in europe, like ford or honda here in the US.

if you want to compare that, here is a better comparison:

330i vs C320 Sport Sedan.
-Both are 6 cylinder engines.
-330i is a 3 liter 225hp | C320 is a 3.2 liter 215hp
-0-60, 330i takes it at 5.9, vs C320 at 6.8 (both manual)
-and with all that, MSRP the BMW is about $1000 less than the Benz.
-and im pretty sure a 330i can outhandle a C320.
AssassinGT Posted: Jan 6 2004, 01:44 AM

Yeah it's a pretty unfair comparison. Definetly, plus in all regards the MG's look like ass compared to the BMW's
Exactically what i mean, why can't they put a V6 2.5ltr in the 318 too?
----
If it's like ford or honda in the US, and BMW is like Caddillac, then why
can't they make there cars even better then the small-time populars?
Atleast keep up with the performance for the same price! They're the ones
who want a BMW in every household, so why can't they make people
want one of theres? If they can't provide us, the public, with the competitive
amount of performance we desire, at the low, non-threatening price, how
do they expect us to go to them, instead of the other guy who's fulfulling
our expectations, and then topping it off saying "We're just the small-guys, anyways"
----
They may look like Jaguar S-Type's, Yes. But they look like they can hold,
and take alot more then the 318. It's Bigger, Bolder, and proven Badder.
Though I, myself dispise the Bangle design, they're still a quite improvment
to the repetitive design BMW is already using.

Ford… atleast they circled the problem...
Hey, didn’t they do that with bmw too?...
There’s a difference though...
Ford’s problem is they can’t perform...
Bimmer’s problem is they do it too well!
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#6 (permalink) Old 01-06-2004, 02:49 AM
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yes you can put a 2.5 liter into a 318, that would be called a 325

Quote:
then why
can't they make there cars even better then the small-time populars
the thing is, they can. Example, the M5, beautiful car, wonder to drive, looks great, great value for what you pay for, (yea $70 grand, but youll have troubles finding a car that the M5 can do for $70 grand.

There are things that makes a bmw a bmw and usually bmw customers will expect these things. Handling is one major factor. To get the car to handle so well involves alot of research and developement. All that contributes to the price. Yes you can prob degrade a BMW to equal the cost to a rival car, but that BMW wont be a BMW any longer.

thats a very good point on that. this is why the new Dodge SRT-4 is such a wanted car. very affordable, yet very very fast.

but you are missing something in the equation. You really 'get what you pay for'. For example in the bmw, alot of the price you pay is towards the research and development of the engines. BMW engines are if not the best production engines ever created. They have won countless engine awards. I mean the famous BMW Inline 6 engines are considered benchmarks for the automotive world. The S54 M3 engine, 3.2 liter inline 6 producing 333hp: that is amazing there! In comparison, a ford 4.6 liter V6 (mind you a larger engine than the M3 by 1.4 liters!) produces only around 200hp. This is why a V6 mustang is only $20k whereas a M3 at $45-50k.

Engines aside, you cant forget technologies in the car, materials used, and overall fit and finish. Take the Honda accord, higest level, pretty close to a 325i in price. The honda gets auto up/down driver side window, whereas the 325i has all 4 auto up/down. Again, power seats, only the driver side in the honda gets the full treatment, the rest get half that. BMW keeps it balanced, driver and passenger both get the goodies. I think honda was aiming towards cutting final costs on the car.

So anyways, little things like those increases the final price. Ok, its true that its not necessary to have both front seats fully powered but why have power in the first place? Its just a luxury thingy.

Finally, the look and mark of the car. Yes i admit, there is a small percentage of the final cost towards the brand. But I personally think BMW has not gone overboard with that; unlike Mercedes Benz....geezes, they charge wayyyy too much.

ooo lots of typing, have a beer
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#7 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 12:02 AM
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MG sure tried their best to copy the BMW front styling. Let me guess this guy is a RUSTANG owner, and is jealous of BMW's since he can't have one. :

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</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>You are marvelous! I would like to nominate you to NWS pron master! </td></tr></table><div class='signature'><span style='color:blue'>From this thread</span> <a href='http://www.bmw-forums.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5662' target='_blank'>http://www.bmw-forums.com/forum/index.php?...?showtopic=5662</a><span style='color:blue'> Don't click if you will be offended
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#8 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 03:12 AM
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///Mpower the future is an unknown quantity at this point
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Quote:
Originally posted by 99E46@Jan 7 2004, 12:42 AM
MG sure tried their best to copy the BMW front styling.* Let me guess this guy is a RUSTANG owner, and is jealous of BMW's since he can't have one.* * :
-----------------------
yes you can put a 2.5 liter into a 318, that would be called a 325
Well, excuse me for pointing out BMW is lacking in the competition department.
And, guess what, I think you guessed wrong .
---------------
Woobiee, I totally forgot about the 31.8, 32.5, stuff. So I guess my post did sound kinda un-knowingly. What I meant is, why can't they lower the 325 to the MG's price so next time they come around, BMW ends up winning. Yeah, I also do understand they can't just lower the prices of there cars... makes people think something's wrong with them. And, k, I understand what you're telling me, it's just that I hate it when some stupid car company goes bragging "I beat BMW!"
Especially when it's a low time company, like pontiac... They must've tooken alot of pride in finding out something one of there cars can do to outbeat a BM.
It's just that people that don't know about cars will look at this and say, "WOW! MG's in! BM's out!" and it's those kinda people BMW is after.
Otherwise you're absolutely right! Peace

Ford… atleast they circled the problem...
Hey, didn’t they do that with bmw too?...
There’s a difference though...
Ford’s problem is they can’t perform...
Bimmer’s problem is they do it too well!
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#9 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 11:20 AM
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I am not here to start a war about opinions on cars, you have yours and the rest of the people on the board have theirs(it is a BMW board you know). As others have stated, it was an unfair comparison anyway. Do you drive that MG? What do you drive anyway?

It still befuddles me that someone would come on a BMW board, and make negative comments about them.

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</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>You are marvelous! I would like to nominate you to NWS pron master! </td></tr></table><div class='signature'><span style='color:blue'>From this thread</span> <a href='http://www.bmw-forums.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5662' target='_blank'>http://www.bmw-forums.com/forum/index.php?...?showtopic=5662</a><span style='color:blue'> Don't click if you will be offended
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#10 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
It's just that people that don't know about cars will look at this and say, "WOW! MG's in! BM's out!" and it's those kinda people BMW is after.
I don't think you can sum up an entire business plan with assumptions here. One product comparison will definitely NOT sway that many opinions...especially such a small scale one.

BMW is established, they have a customer base and it's definitely not shrinking. I've never even heard of the car make they compared the 318 to.

meh...drop of water in the ocean.
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#11 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ///Mpower the future+Jan 7 2004, 03:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (///Mpower the future @ Jan 7 2004, 03:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-99E46@Jan 7 2004, 12:42 AM
MG sure tried their best to copy the BMW front styling.* Let me guess this guy is a RUSTANG owner, and is jealous of BMW's since he can't have one.* * :
-----------------------
yes you can put a 2.5 liter into a 318, that would be called a 325
Well, excuse me for pointing out BMW is lacking in the competition department.
And, guess what, I think you guessed wrong .
---------------
Woobiee, I totally forgot about the 31.8, 32.5, stuff. So I guess my post did sound kinda un-knowingly. What I meant is, why can't they lower the 325 to the MG's price so next time they come around, BMW ends up winning. Yeah, I also do understand they can't just lower the prices of there cars... makes people think something's wrong with them. And, k, I understand what you're telling me, it's just that I hate it when some stupid car company goes bragging "I beat BMW!"
Especially when it's a low time company, like pontiac... They must've tooken alot of pride in finding out something one of there cars can do to outbeat a BM.
It's just that people that don't know about cars will look at this and say, "WOW! MG's in! BM's out!" and it's those kinda people BMW is after.
Otherwise you're absolutely right! Peace [/b][/quote]
bmw could lower their price of the 325 closer to the MG's, but they dont need to becuase bmw will still sell more cars than the MG because its a bmw. So why not capitalize on that fact and not worry that the MG is a better value, cause alot of people dont mind spending a few extra thousand to get the roundel and bmw styling
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#12 (permalink) Old 01-07-2004, 03:49 PM
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well as far as i know they are two differant animals. MG was built on its race cars. typical british small displacement 4's ... VERY basic cars. BMW has had decades of practice in making luxory sports sedans. and when it comes down to it. you go out and you start talking about cars. some one asks what kinda car do you have, and you say "A BMW" and instantly images of a car speeding along winding european road, with the driver and passengers in complete leather clad comfort listening to Beethoven or Bach whilest the navigational system tells you where to go. when you say "i have an MG" i picture my fathers british racing green 1973 MGB, its two, yes 2! fuses. almost closterphobic seating. basicly waht im getting at is they should built a luxory sedan rep before trying to play with the germans. ( excluding VW though they seem to have some good ideas) i mean if they had started out more towards the lexus's series, got a name for them selves then tried to take the bimmer it might work, but i dont think many people are gunna drop 40,000 (us$) on a car whos brand ( although long established and very nice) has little to no experiance with the luxory sedan.

apologize for any gramatical or spelling errors im tired.

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im so hardcore. i dont even have cup holders
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