Something Wrong In The Steering, E39 540i - BMW Forum

mrogers · 05-17-2005, 04:36 PM

This has been going on for quite some time, but no mechanic (two independent) or my dealer can pinpoint the problem, and I'm starting to think they're all idiots because there's got to be only so many parts that can cause this, right?

Here's the problem: I have a loose feel in my steering. Whenever I hit a bump, the wheel jiggles a bit, quite loosely, and I can feel the handling get a bit squirrley if I happen to hit a bump while going around a curve (on-ramps are the best example). This is accompanied by a little squeak from under the front end whenever I go over a bump. It's driving me insane, and it feels like crap--the car just doesn't feel surefooted. The squeak is also really embarassing.

Now, we know what it is NOT: it is not the front suspension (brand new last year, and the mechanics all agreed it is in perfect shape), and not the front control arms (replaced those too, because the dealer thought those "might" be it).

So, I really would appreciate if you could all bring your technical knowledge to bear and help me narrow down what might be the problem. With my car currently needing new catalytic converters, new tires, an airbag wire replaced, and recently having $400 of cam-shaft sensor and spark plug work done, I can't afford to drop it off and get charged $150 a pop for more "guesses" by the dealer. Thanks!

billB · 05-17-2005, 07:58 PM

Whenever I hit a bump, the wheel jiggles a bit, quite loosely, and I can feel the handling get a bit squirrley if I happen to hit a bump while going around a curve (on-ramps are the best example).

When turning/when on-ramps this jiggle u describing; does it translate into fish tailing...do u feel the rear loose too...kinda not following the front.......

mrogers · 05-17-2005, 08:17 PM

That's tough to answer, but really it only feels like the front end is jumping around. The rear feels fairly firmly planted, but again it's hard to tell. Why do you ask?
I am asking because I had a similar problem...going to work I had to cross one of those steel bridges and everytime I went over it, my car fishtailed--my Jeep did not/solid over the same bridge-- so everyone was talking front end problems/wheel alignment etc..but I knew it was not.....finally it turned out to be worn out rubber in the INTEGRAL LINK (worth? $42!!)

mrogers · 05-27-2005, 11:54 AM

Wow, something got REALLY screwed up with this thread--I did not make that last post, that was Bill talking about the integral link, not me.

OK, so I have to say no it doesn't feel like the back end is moving around. I have that loose, wobbly feel in the steering and the sound that I hear whenever the front end hits a bump. Does anyone have any other ideas? My gut still tells me it's in the steering, but I'm not sure how the steering system is built on this car. What else might cause this?

mrogers · 05-27-2005, 12:20 PM

One more question: just in case they are bad, are these rubber "integral link" things something I can check myself? Where are they on the car?

Dirty_Tool · 05-27-2005, 12:37 PM

From what I read you havent had the steering box replaced or any of the tie rod ends or idler or pitman arm replaced. So the entire steering system is still original, but it you're saying the entire front suspension has been replaced? So can I assume that ALL of the front suspension has been replaced? The upper AND lower control arms and their respective ball joints and bushings? Have the springs and shocks and the upper strut hats been replaced? If all of these things have been replaced then you can say the entire front suspension is new. Then you can move on to the steering which at this point I am assuming is all original? BTW How many miles are on the car? The steering box may have play in it, or 1 of the tie rods might have play or idler arm etc etc. Sadly it seems as tho none of the mechanics can pinpoint the problem, or possibly they did find play in other suspension components that needed to be eliminated 1st before continuing? Are any of these shops willing to pitch in with some free diagnosis since you have spent $$$ wih them trying to cure this issue? If not then are you ready to lay under the car and start doing some diag yourself? Obviously nobody here can just say "here is your problem, replace this" so the way I see it you have 2 options.

1) Try to get 1 of the previous shops to diagnose the problem for free, or pay them or another shop to diag it. ( with all the other suspension components replaced it may be easier to narrow down this go-around)

2) Get on an old pair of jeans and a ratty T-shirt and grab one of your buddys to hop in the car and try turning the wheel (with vehicle stationary of course) to try and reproduce the noise. You lay under the car and put your hand on every steering component under there 1 by 1 and see where you feel the play the strongest. This will most likely be where the fault lies. Also get a wrench on every nut and bolt on the front suspension, steering system and front subframe bolts and make sure nothing is loose. Hopefully you will find something.

Best of Luck,
DT

rjr · 05-27-2005, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dirty_Tool@May 27 2005, 11:37 AM
From what I read you havent had the steering box replaced or any of the tie rod ends or idler or pitman arm replaced. So the entire steering system is still original, but it you're saying the entire front suspension has been replaced? So can I assume that ALL of the front suspension has been replaced? The upper AND lower control arms and their respective ball joints and bushings? Have the springs and shocks and the upper strut hats been replaced? If all of these things have been replaced then you can say the entire front suspension is new. Then you can move on to the steering which at this point I am assuming is all original? BTW How many miles are on the car? The steering box may have play in it, or 1 of the tie rods might have play or idler arm etc etc. Sadly it seems as tho none of the mechanics can pinpoint the problem, or possibly they did find play in other suspension components that needed to be eliminated 1st before continuing? Are any of these shops willing to pitch in with some free diagnosis since you have spent $$$ wih them trying to cure this issue? If not then are you ready to lay under the car and start doing some diag yourself? Obviously nobody here can just say "here is your problem, replace this" so the way I see it you have 2 options.

1) Try to get 1 of the previous shops to diagnose the problem for free, or pay them or another shop to diag it. ( with all the other suspension components replaced it may be easier to narrow down this go-around)

2) Get on an old pair of jeans and a ratty T-shirt and grab one of your buddys to hop in the car and try turning the wheel (with vehicle stationary of course) to try and reproduce the noise. You lay under the car and put your hand on every steering component under there 1 by 1 and see where you feel the play the strongest. This will most likely be where the fault lies. Also get a wrench on every nut and bolt on the front suspension, steering system and front subframe bolts and make sure nothing is loose. Hopefully you will find something.

Best of Luck,
DT

[snapback]348339[/snapback]

WAG on my part but is there any chance that it could be a tire? Rub your hands on the side walls and see if you feel a bubble. Rub the surface of the tread and see if it feels smooth.

rjr

mrogers · 05-28-2005, 09:07 AM

Unless tires make clunking/squeaking noises, it's not a tire

DT, thanks for all your advice. As far as what has been replaced: the struts and I believe the lower control arms. I did some digging around on Roadfly and found a few people describing my symptoms exactly, and according to those posts it sounds like one of two things: either the front ball joints, or the thrust arms or sway bar links...but I think in some cases people are using different names to describe the same parts, so that's confusing me a bit.

I'm in my hometown this weekend, and on my way in I stopped by my old mechanic that I used to use when I was here. Ironically, I haven't paid him any money to diagnose this yet, but he came out and talked with me for a few minutes, then had me turn the wheel all the way while he reached inside the wheelwell and tugged on some stuff. He didn't see anything, but wanted me to bring it back so he could get it in the air. It would be tough for me to leave the car here, but if I can't figure this out this weekend I may do that.

DT, I'm going to try to get under the car sometime today or tomorrow. Thanks for your advice. If anyone has a diagram of the steering/suspension setup of the 540i with the parts labeled, I would be eternally grateful, just so I know I'm calling the right part by the right name.

meditek · 05-29-2005, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrogers@May 28 2005, 08:07 AM
If anyone has a diagram of the steering/suspension setup of the 540i with the parts labeled, I would be eternally grateful, just so I know I'm calling the right part by the right name.

[snapback]348505[/snapback]

Parts with diagrams :-

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/

After you had the new bits fitted did you get a dealer to check the suspension geometry?

mrogers · 05-29-2005, 10:46 PM

meditek--that site is GREAT!!!!! Thank you!!!! Now I'll know what I'm looking at!

Yes, I had a dealer check out the suspension after I had the new parts put on, and they said everything was fine.

I hope to be able to take a detailed look soon with these new diagrams. Thanks again!