Ses/mil Light On Again!! - BMW Forum - BimmerWerkz.com
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#1 (permalink) Old 04-05-2005, 09:24 PM
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Arrrrgh! The last time this happened I cleaned up the MAF sensor and reset the code & all was well for about 7,000 miles. Now, the Service Engine Soon light is baaaacck, and my handy-dandy Peake tool says it's the same 2 codes as before:
1A - Off Idle Mixture, Cyl 1-4
1B - Off Idle Mixture, Cyl 5-8

I checked and can find nothing wrong. I looked for holes or cracks in any of the intake tubing and vacuum hoses, including the little helmholz box below the MAF. Nothing looks wrong at the intake manifold. I tried spraying carb cleaner into the MAF, but the SES light returned and won't go away.

I hate to spend the dough on a new MAF since I am not certain that's what it is, despite the cause/effect experience I had 7K miles ago. I am taking it to the dealer later this week to get the rear differential fluid changed, so I am considering having them diagnose it while there. But I hate that I'll likely be walking bow-legged after letting the dealer have its way with me...

Naturally, this occurred just after my relative clean bill of health at the local BMWCCA chapter's free inspection last saturday where the mechanic noted that my car was one of the "nicest high-miles 5-series (he's) seen in a long time". I celebrated by ordering my first mod - an M5 rear sway bar. "Murphy" made sure the SES light came to life later that same day. Oh, the irony...

PS - my car is a 1999 540/6 w/110K miles.

<span style='colorurple'>Eric S.</span>
2006 Honda Odyssey EXL-RES
2006 Honda Accord V6 EX-L Sedan
1999 BMW 540i 6-Speed (Sold to M3UOND on 9/21/06)
1991 Honda Civic Si - Occasional Beater
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#2 (permalink) Old 04-05-2005, 09:34 PM
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Have you had the intake gaskets and/or pcv plate done already Eric? If so at what mileage? Its too bad that the peake gives only general fault info. A readout of the actual adaptation values might help to distinguish between a MAF problem or a vacuum leak problem. A dealership visit may be necessary in order to get it straightened out.
Good luck,
DT

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#3 (permalink) Old 04-05-2005, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dirty_Tool@Apr 5 2005, 10:34 PM
Have you had the intake gaskets and/or pcv plate done already Eric? If so at what mileage? Its too bad that the peake gives only general fault info. A readout of the actual adaptation values might help to distinguish between a MAF problem or a vacuum leak problem. A dealership visit may be necessary in order to get it straightened out.
Good luck,
DT
[snapback]326341[/snapback]
Having just bought the car in October at 103K miles, I don't know exactly what the service history is. THAT was something I was supposed to find out last Saturday at that freebie inspection because that dealership (about a 75 minute drive for me) is where the original owner (from new to 76K miles) took the car. Unfortunately they "purge" the record if it's been over 3 years since they've seen a particular car and so they had nothing to offer me, except for some work codes for in-warranty work performed, but said they couldn't look them up for me. Any idea how to find out what those service code numbers mean? About the only thing I am sure of is that the radiator/upper hose have been replaced because it has the 2001+ configuration and the upper hose has a date stamp of "1Q01"...

<span style='colorurple'>Eric S.</span>
2006 Honda Odyssey EXL-RES
2006 Honda Accord V6 EX-L Sedan
1999 BMW 540i 6-Speed (Sold to M3UOND on 9/21/06)
1991 Honda Civic Si - Occasional Beater
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#4 (permalink) Old 04-05-2005, 10:42 PM
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I am sorry to hear this about your car...you know I like it....In addition to what DT has said; a reminder is in order:
1. Peake Research table is not the final -and shouldn't be- authority in diagnostics they do list the MAF as a separate entity in itself....has its own code in many tables...i.e. Table 0F lists Mass Air Sensor as 73....yours is 1A/1B??
2. Last week I had a similar problem with check engine but Peake displayed codes related to precat O2 sensors, adaptation limits, Idle control speed (code CC) these codes got me thinking...serious$$$...it turned out to be a bad gasket (orange in color, worth $8.45) lives unhappy between the intake side and throttle body...leaking+faint hissing noise.....Thus some of these codes while pointing at one component are triggered , in reality, by "secondary" problems. This was a proof to me that the adaptation limit code was secondary to the massive leak..the poor little things were working so hard to compensate/trim without any success!!

regards
billb
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#5 (permalink) Old 04-05-2005, 11:04 PM
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post those codes Eric.... im sure somebody can translate them.
DT

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#6 (permalink) Old 04-05-2005, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dirty_Tool@Apr 6 2005, 12:04 AM
post those codes Eric.... im sure somebody can translate them.
DT
[snapback]326382[/snapback]
Thanks will do tomorrow. I just checked and somehow ended up without the piece of paper the service advisor showed me when we were discussing, so I have none of the codes right now. They are also a Porsche dealer and service the current car of the original owner of my 540 - he has a Carerra S4. I will leave word with the service guy (who knows this person) to give him my name and number next time he's there so that maybe he will call me and I can get it straight from the original owner. Doubtful, but you never know.

<span style='colorurple'>Eric S.</span>
2006 Honda Odyssey EXL-RES
2006 Honda Accord V6 EX-L Sedan
1999 BMW 540i 6-Speed (Sold to M3UOND on 9/21/06)
1991 Honda Civic Si - Occasional Beater
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#7 (permalink) Old 04-05-2005, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by billB@Apr 5 2005, 11:42 PM
I am sorry to hear this about your car...you know I like it....In addition to what DT has said; a reminder is in order:
1. Peake Research table is not the final -and shouldn't be- authority in diagnostics they do list the MAF as a separate entity in itself....has its own code in many tables...i.e. Table 0F lists Mass Air Sensor as 73....yours is 1A/1B??
2. Last week I had a similar problem with check engine but Peake displayed codes related to precat O2 sensors, adaptation limits, Idle control speed (code CC) these codes got me thinking...serious$$$...it turned out to be a bad gasket (orange in color, worth $8.45) lives unhappy between the intake side and throttle body...leaking+faint hissing noise.....Thus some of these codes while pointing at one component are triggered , in reality, by "secondary" problems. This was a proof to me that the adaptation limit code was secondary to the massive leak..the poor little things were working so hard to compensate/trim without any success!!

regards
billb
[snapback]326371[/snapback]
Bill -

No biggie - this SES light thing is just a detail; i'll solve it eventually. I checked earlier today and saw the same thing you pointed out - that Peake's table 0F lists a separate "MAF" code of 73. Thats another reason I'm not ordering a new MAF just yet. It might be worth it while I am getting my differential fluid changed at the dealer this week to just fork over another $50 for an SES diagnosis too...

<span style='colorurple'>Eric S.</span>
2006 Honda Odyssey EXL-RES
2006 Honda Accord V6 EX-L Sedan
1999 BMW 540i 6-Speed (Sold to M3UOND on 9/21/06)
1991 Honda Civic Si - Occasional Beater
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#8 (permalink) Old 04-06-2005, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dirty_Tool@Apr 6 2005, 12:04 AM
post those codes Eric.... im sure somebody can translate them.
DT
[snapback]326382[/snapback]
OK DT, here are those service codes, which the dealer very nicely faxed to me today. See if you or someone else can decipher them so I'll know what work was done on my car:
19,503 miles - Service Code: 5116331300, and 85990089SP
38,420 miles - code: 0061340100
47,376 miles - codes: 0017090100, 0012380100, and 0012310100
54,984 miles - code: 62141112BV

That's it. I know out-of-warranty stuff occurred after that, but there's no record of that at all, except for a 87,000 service that I know about. Please let me know what you think. I am hoping the 47,376 was the radiator blowout and includes new water pump. The bad news is that if that's true, then at 110K now it's probably time to do another preventive new water pump at least...

<span style='colorurple'>Eric S.</span>
2006 Honda Odyssey EXL-RES
2006 Honda Accord V6 EX-L Sedan
1999 BMW 540i 6-Speed (Sold to M3UOND on 9/21/06)
1991 Honda Civic Si - Occasional Beater
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#9 (permalink) Old 04-06-2005, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eric S.+Apr 6 2005, 12:48 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Eric S. @ Apr 6 2005, 12:48 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Dirty_Tool@Apr 6 2005, 12:04 AM
post those codes Eric.... im sure somebody can translate them.
DT
[snapback]326382[/snapback]
OK DT, here are those service codes, which the dealer very nicely faxed to me today. See if you or someone else can decipher them so I'll know what work was done on my car:
19,503 miles - Service Code: 5116331300, and 85990089SP
38,420 miles - code: 0061340100
47,376 miles - codes: 0017090100, 0012380100, and 0012310100
54,984 miles - code: 62141112BV

That's it. I know out-of-warranty stuff occurred after that, but there's no record of that at all, except for a 87,000 service that I know about. Please let me know what you think. I am hoping the 47,376 was the radiator blowout and includes new water pump. The bad news is that if that's true, then at 110K now it's probably time to do another preventive new water pump at least...
[snapback]326907[/snapback]
[/b][/quote]

Eric heres a list of those codes translated. Unfortunately it doesnt tell us what was done out of warranty but at least itll give u an idea of what was done up to 54k miles.

516331300=front cupholder replacement
85990089sp = oil service
0061340100 = general module encoding
0017090100 = recall regarding upper radiator hose rubbing against bracket
0012380100 = not found (PROB RELATED TO ALTERNATOR)
0012310100 = alternator
62141112bv = instrument cluster lighting failure

As far as the problem youre having now I think it would be wise to have the dealer at least diagnose it, and then maybe have an independent shop do the work to save some $$$$$.
Good luck man.
DT

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#10 (permalink) Old 04-06-2005, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dirty_Tool+Apr 6 2005, 05:54 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dirty_Tool @ Apr 6 2005, 05:54 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Quote:
Originally posted by Eric S.@Apr 6 2005, 12:48 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Dirty_Tool
Quote:
@Apr 6 2005, 12:04 AM
post those codes Eric.... im sure somebody can translate them.
DT
[snapback]326382[/snapback]

OK DT, here are those service codes, which the dealer very nicely faxed to me today. See if you or someone else can decipher them so I'll know what work was done on my car:
19,503 miles - Service Code: 5116331300, and 85990089SP
38,420 miles - code: 0061340100
47,376 miles - codes: 0017090100, 0012380100, and 0012310100
54,984 miles - code: 62141112BV

That's it. I know out-of-warranty stuff occurred after that, but there's no record of that at all, except for a 87,000 service that I know about. Please let me know what you think. I am hoping the 47,376 was the radiator blowout and includes new water pump. The bad news is that if that's true, then at 110K now it's probably time to do another preventive new water pump at least...
[snapback]326907[/snapback]
Eric heres a list of those codes translated. Unfortunately it doesnt tell us what was done out of warranty but at least itll give u an idea of what was done up to 54k miles.

516331300=front cupholder replacement
85990089sp = oil service
0061340100 = general module encoding
0017090100 = recall regarding upper radiator hose rubbing against bracket
0012380100 = not found (PROB RELATED TO ALTERNATOR)
0012310100 = alternator
62141112bv = instrument cluster lighting failure

As far as the problem youre having now I think it would be wise to have the dealer at least diagnose it, and then maybe have an independent shop do the work to save some $$$$$.
Good luck man.
DT
[snapback]326949[/snapback]
[/b][/quote]
DT - you already had cred before but now I'd say you are amazing! Thank you thank you!

I dropped off the car tonight at the dealer for tomorrow's stiff $100 rear diff fluid change-out and the Twilight Zone-ish $95 basic diagnostic fee on that SES light. Will let you know what they tell me.

PS - Picked up my M5 rear sway bar tonight and it looks good - can't wait to install it!!

<span style='colorurple'>Eric S.</span>
2006 Honda Odyssey EXL-RES
2006 Honda Accord V6 EX-L Sedan
1999 BMW 540i 6-Speed (Sold to M3UOND on 9/21/06)
1991 Honda Civic Si - Occasional Beater
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#11 (permalink) Old 04-06-2005, 09:36 PM
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Congrats on the sway bar man and good luck on the other stuff. Make sure to be atimate that you want a printout of all the fault codes and data that they read out of the module. That way if you decide to take it elsewhere for the repairs the other shop has all the data that they need and also if you need more help from the forum it gives us all more info. Good luck and of course keep us posted.
DT

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#12 (permalink) Old 04-07-2005, 08:51 PM
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OK guys - Here is the outcome:
It was the MAF. Dealer confirmed by hooking up to analyzer and then replacing MAF with a new one. The service advisor said something about having some negative values with the old MAF and all positive values (as it should be) once the new MAF was connected.

This was as I suspected, but I didn't want to risk buying a new MAF on just my suspicion. The dealer's price for the new MAF part was an eye-popping, wallet-deflating $450 (minus 20% BMWCCA discount), so I had them reinstall my old MAF and then immediately ordered a new one from getcoolparts.com for a mere $130.

Now - get this - they also changed out my differential lube, as I had requested. When I asked a different advisor a few days earlier he quoted me $100 for the job, not knowing I'm a CCA member. Today, however, they did NOT charge me any labor cost for the diffy fluid swap!! Nada, zero, zilch, etc. I am thinking it must be the CCA membership (I keep the car club clingie affixed to my rear side window) - they give me the red carpet treatment there anytime I mention my membership number!

Total bill for today, including tax + shop supplies, was a relatively paltry $109.75!! And they aplolgized for not washing my car for me before returning it to me (they barely had it ready for me at 5:30), offering to have me bring it back Saturday for a freebie wash. I'm telling you, I am really liking my local BMW dealer. Consistently positive interactions, laid-back approach. Too bad I'm still only going to them for parts if I can help it!!

PS for DT - They did pull up some additional codes, but they weren't yet triggering a SES light. They gave me the printout and here's what's on there (in addition to the 1A and 1B mixture codes):
- "DSC5.7 - 07 Wheel-speed sensor, front left, transmits implausible signals - DSC passively switched - (unintelligible)"
- "DSC5.7 - 06 (same as above, but for right front)"
- "IKE - Fault stored"
- "ZKE - 146 Tilt sensor of antitheft alarm system"
- "ZKE - 222 Servomotor, steeering column (height): jamming during upward travel"
- "ZKE - 149 Passenger-compartment sensor"

As far as I know the DSC sysem is working fine (on acceleration, heh, heh), the steering wheel is tilting fine, and the alarm's pass compartment sensor is working too. I am not sure what these additional codes mean. Any enlightenment? Anything to be concerned about? Thanks for whatever you can sumrise!

<span style='colorurple'>Eric S.</span>
2006 Honda Odyssey EXL-RES
2006 Honda Accord V6 EX-L Sedan
1999 BMW 540i 6-Speed (Sold to M3UOND on 9/21/06)
1991 Honda Civic Si - Occasional Beater
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#13 (permalink) Old 04-07-2005, 11:24 PM
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Eric,
Glad it was a relatively painless visit. As far as the additional codes are concerned:
The wheel speed sensor codes were probably set either by doing a smog on the dyno at some point or by running the car on a lift or jackstands (ie: rear wheels are turning but front wheels arent... DSC module gets confused and sets fault

The other faults in the body module are just erratic faults that are often seen in that module. Nothing to worry about IMO.

I think if you get that MAF i you will be good to go!
Good Luck,
DT

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#14 (permalink) Old 04-08-2005, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dirty_Tool@Apr 8 2005, 12:24 AM
Eric,
Glad it was a relatively painless visit. As far as the additional codes are concerned:
The wheel speed sensor codes were probably set either by doing a smog on the dyno at some point or by running the car on a lift or jackstands (ie: rear wheels are turning but front wheels arent... DSC module gets confused and sets fault

The other faults in the body module are just erratic faults that are often seen in that module. Nothing to worry about IMO.

I think if you get that MAF i you will be good to go!
Good Luck,
DT
[snapback]328069[/snapback]
The MAF will arrive next Thursday, according to UPS tracking. SO I am PUMPED! I just ordered a buch of stuff from Dave Zeckhausen this afternoon, an experience I will praise in a separate post...

<span style='colorurple'>Eric S.</span>
2006 Honda Odyssey EXL-RES
2006 Honda Accord V6 EX-L Sedan
1999 BMW 540i 6-Speed (Sold to M3UOND on 9/21/06)
1991 Honda Civic Si - Occasional Beater
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#15 (permalink) Old 04-17-2005, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dirty_Tool@Apr 8 2005, 12:24 AM
Eric,
Glad it was a relatively painless visit. As far as the additional codes are concerned:
The wheel speed sensor codes were probably set either by doing a smog on the dyno at some point or by running the car on a lift or jackstands (ie: rear wheels are turning but front wheels arent... DSC module gets confused and sets fault

The other faults in the body module are just erratic faults that are often seen in that module. Nothing to worry about IMO.

I think if you get that MAF i you will be good to go!
Good Luck,
DT
[snapback]328069[/snapback]
For the Record - I installed the new MAF Thursday night and cleared all codes and the SES light has not returned, so the MAF was evidently the problem.

<span style='colorurple'>Eric S.</span>
2006 Honda Odyssey EXL-RES
2006 Honda Accord V6 EX-L Sedan
1999 BMW 540i 6-Speed (Sold to M3UOND on 9/21/06)
1991 Honda Civic Si - Occasional Beater
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