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#1 (permalink) Old 01-29-2005, 10:45 AM
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(I am not sure where this topic belongs, but it applies to my 545 and X5, and I guess to all other BMWs, so if the Moderator wishes to remove or relocate it, please do.)

In the last issue of Rondel, there was a short mention of the dash light color in BMWs. I think very highly of my two cars, but in my view, the dash lighting is inferior given today’s technology. I agree, night effects are good, but day can be extremely limited, with definition difficult to quickly determine. There are much better lighting systems available, EL, LED, and incandescent backlit products which now are in a full array of colors besides red – white, green, and blue to name a few. Some of these are used in aviation today. I have begun to look into changing my lighting, but no luck to date. If BMW wants to make a change to the betterment of all, my recommendation, heed the article and update their dash lighting to the 21 century. ZZ
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#2 (permalink) Old 01-29-2005, 10:53 AM
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Well.. the main reason BMW is hard to part with that lighting is mostly because of tradition.. and due to some studies back in the 80 if I'm correct.. pointed out that the off orange red color was the most visible but less obstructing color to use in the dash... lets you see.. but doesnt mess with your night vision.. between looking at the dash.. and the road...

As for the color in aircraft... Its green.. or mine is.. NVG compatible...

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#3 (permalink) Old 01-29-2005, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by zoomzoom@Jan 29 2005, 05:45 PM
(I am not sure where this topic belongs, but it applies to my 545 and X5, and I guess to all other BMWs, so if the Moderator wishes to remove or relocate it, please do.)

In the last issue of Rondel, there was a short mention of the dash light color in BMWs. I think very highly of my two cars, but in my view, the dash lighting is inferior given today’s technology. I agree, night effects are good, but day can be extremely limited, with definition difficult to quickly determine. There are much better lighting systems available, EL, LED, and incandescent backlit products which now are in a full array of colors besides red – white, green, and blue to name a few. Some of these are used in aviation today. I have begun to look into changing my lighting, but no luck to date. If BMW wants to make a change to the betterment of all, my recommendation, heed the article and update their dash lighting to the 21 century. ZZ
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One would think BMW dash lighting hasn't changed much simply because:

A. BMW has to stay rooted in its own past as such (as 97 alpine said) sticking by/following its own tradition. An identity issue if you wish.

B. The same does not hold true for the MBs legacy dash lighting; unlike BMW's it was (regular bulbs) and it took Lexus to force MB to upgrade their lighting. If you look at both MB and Lexus, they use very similar technology in their dash lighting. Lexus gets the credit for the upgrade not MB. BMW didn't have MB's problem (was difficult to read).

C. Having said that I don't believe that this issue is due to lacking knowledge and/or the abscence of technology on the part of BMW engineering dep. If someone can come up with the necessary technology for the SMG ll transmissions; they can easily perfect a light bulb. Simply put ? At least for now they don't want to be disconnected from their own rich wires of tradition by a light bulb. A car without a history has no future either!

P.s. I hope Mr. Chris Bangle is reading our posts.
regards
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#4 (permalink) Old 02-03-2005, 10:17 AM
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The comparison being used with aviation to justify the red color is marginal at best. In aviation, darkness is more complete, with other than lightning or certain ground effects which become effective during departure and approach, the cockpit maintains a fairly constant level of light. The eye adjusts in a process called dark adaptation, but even this change takes 20 to 30 minutes to occur. The old school of thought was to use red to optimum night vision capability, but even this is being rethought. Red light severely distorts colors, especially on charts, and even hampers eye focus on the inside of the cockpit. Other colors are now being used, and if memory serves, at least 11 are now approved for use. Simple voltage adjustments to the system regulate a smooth and uniform luminance between night and day time operation, controlling the brightness between night and day operation. (Voltage-Controlled Dimming)

An automobile is subjected to all kinds of external lighting intrusions with excessive illuminations during night time operations, and to justify dash lighting requirements based of night vision, just are not practical. The eye never has time to become adjusted to darkness. In stead of focusing (excuse the pun) on a single environment as justification, an overall strategy should be applied to address vision during all hours of operation, and the red BMW uses is not in keeping with valid and good daytime recognition. They apparently agree as critical instrument illumination is back lit, black on white or similar. Why not complete exercise and make all instruments readable for all 24 hours? ZZ
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#5 (permalink) Old 02-03-2005, 10:59 AM
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what is there on a dash that you need to read nonstop? stop complaining. The only thing that you need is speed and rpms, and those got big arrows, other than that, there's nothing that you need to look at constantly and check regularly. All the emergency lights will be easily seen and trip gas and temp is not something that you need to look at all the time.
Billb put it nicely about the past and the future and i completely agree with him! Hard to see or not, the red light is the tradition and we should stick with it. Btw, if you want to change the light, do it yourself and then you will have a custom BMW :smile


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#6 (permalink) Old 02-03-2005, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
the red light is the tradition
Boy, to name a few..... arn't you happy that the seal beam headlight, esin glass curtains, and the solid rubber tire did not become traditions......
ZZ
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#7 (permalink) Old 02-03-2005, 06:05 PM
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Any car manufacturer that does not believe "failing to plan is planning to fail." sooner or later will ultimately fail. That is why I started my reply with a “comprehensive historical concept” that ought to serve as a blueprint for understanding some of BMW marketing strategies. Featuring objectives, new model milestones and future concepts (alas Chris Bangles’ new BMW design/vision) helps BMW reach both their (loyal and would be future customers) reach the ultimate goals of buying their end product--the bimmers.
I am certain at the corporate level BMW does keep track of each component and/or update project's progress. Their stuff is MADE-to-MARKET thus strategic corporate plans have to get deeply involved to address the delicate balance between the overall customer’s satisfaction and their corporate needs. Such strategy, therefore, does provide logical answers and justifications for specific models and upgrades. As such; had the red lights represented a threat to these calculated sale strategies; they would have changed it (see MB vs. Lexus above).
Aside from the historical roots of these red lights (please feel free to disagree all day long, that is quite alright with me/you are very entitled to your opinion indeed) I wish to bring the following into this discussion as a reply to your:
“Boy, to name a few..... arn't you happy that the seal beam headlight, esin glass curtains, and the solid rubber tire did not become traditions......”
ZZ
The answer is simply NO and the point above is totally irrelevant in form and context to this topic of BMW tradition for the following reasons:
A. Years ago when the fuel pump was not invented and the THEN rich car owners had to rely on pure laws of gravity for the gas to trickle downstream from trunk high mounted gas tanks; they didn’t complain much; they simply choose to build homes on flat lands. It was not until the pump invention that people with money start building homes on mountains!
B. Feeding a mere dash light with extra voltage does NOT equal the invention of the fuel pump and/or the angel eyes vs. the legacy sealed beam headlights. As you know new technologies are emerging through out human history let alone a bimmer. Some technology does emerge, however, in “a cumulative fashion: new invention based upon older or existing technologies”. The automatic transmission invention, for example, was a leap from the legacy manual whether we like it or not. The electronic memory of “anticipated shifting” is here to stay; its cumulative result has been the all out SMGll without a doubt. The ABS system did exist for year in avionics prior to its deployment in automotives; and the list goes on and on……..
C. As the two examples above illustrate; adding new technology/components entails a lot of calculated planning with one eye on the customers satisfaction/appeal; while the other eye concentrate and focus on corporate strategies/sales and competition. All in all= innovation for the benefit of sales and the end users as well (me and you/us).
In sum: leaping from an older headlight or older solid rubber tires was justified in our minds and in the mind of these engineers--they are humans too.

I guess the red lights on the dash board are not a priority on their list—not yet anyway; but one will never know when it will. If it does I am sure they will make you happy. For now? Just hang in there and enjoy the red of your bimmer. I sincerely do!

Regards
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#8 (permalink) Old 02-03-2005, 07:31 PM
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Wow, did not mean to create a topic which would require a diatribe in reply to a simply stated opinion. I guess I failed to realize that tradition runs deep among BMW owners. My remark about sealed beam headlights etc was offered in jest, to illustrate that I hope traditions are much more than that holding to the color of a light bulb. I see that I was mistaken and if that is the case, then I join the club and say hooray for red. May it continue to endure. I look forward in the future to the marketing hipe it apparently deserves. Perhaps this endeth the topic.
ZZ
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#9 (permalink) Old 02-03-2005, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by zoomzoom@Feb 4 2005, 02:31 AM
Wow, did not mean to create a topic which would require a diatribe in reply to a simply stated opinion. I guess I failed to realize that tradition runs deep among BMW owners. My remark about sealed beam headlights etc was offered in jest, to illustrate that I hope traditions are much more than that holding to the color of a light bulb. I see that I was mistaken and if that is the case, then I join the club and say hooray for red. May it continue to endure. I look forward in the future to the marketing hipe it apparently deserves. Perhaps this endeth the topic.
ZZ
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ZZ

Trust me when I tell you we are a family of one. We simply stating our opinions whether in agreement or not RESPECT is the dominant mode of the 5 series forum.
Accept my best regards..Peace.
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#10 (permalink) Old 02-03-2005, 08:06 PM
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Like I said.. tradition is the main thing.. atleast thats my take on things.. and why they have kept things the same over the years...

As for aircraft lighting.. I could talk all night about the power systems that control and dim aircraft lighting.. Most systems involve a three step switch.. normal, thunderstorm.. and nvis.. or atleast my platform does.. and the pilot hand adjusts them with a turn nob... thats the un-complicated version...

All in all. I wasnt trying to relate the two.. that being driving lights and flying lights..

Thanks for the explaination though.. you were close...

And I do agree with you about lighting.. it makes sence.. but it doesnt have its place in our cars.. due to the past...

Peace,

Les


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#11 (permalink) Old 02-03-2005, 09:17 PM
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nicely put you all.
zoomzoom, we are all human and we all share different opinions so no need to appoligize. Enjoy your bimmer because you are a part of one big happy family


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#12 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by superdeadman@Feb 4 2005, 07:17 AM
nicely put you all.
zoomzoom, we are all human and we all share different opinions so no need to appoligize. Enjoy your bimmer because you are a part of one big happy family
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Hi Guys

What a lovely forum wherein one can express his views in an open manner. How nice to observe that we all are helping each other in different problems we do have concerning to our cars.
Well regarding the red lights in the dash boards of BMW's one thing is for sure and that is the BMW group must had a speacial reason for not changing them to date. I personally feel that it takes years and years to make human beings feel about a particular brand and its characteristics. So abrupt changes do shatter or belief and opnion about a particular brand & sometimes we also get confussed. I am sure the way we are discussing, the BMW group had also gone through lot of brain storming sessions and this red light effect to the human eye must be the outcome of several suryes.
Best of luck to all and keep on helping people around the world.

Qamar
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#13 (permalink) Old 02-04-2005, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Qamar+Feb 5 2005, 05:20 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Qamar @ Feb 5 2005, 05:20 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-superdeadman@Feb 4 2005, 07:17 AM
nicely put you all.
zoomzoom, we are all human and we all share different opinions so no need to appoligize. Enjoy your bimmer because you are a part of one big happy family
[snapback]285587[/snapback]
Hi Guys

What a lovely forum wherein one can express his views in an open manner. How nice to observe that we all are helping each other in different problems we do have concerning to our cars.
Well regarding the red lights in the dash boards of BMW's one thing is for sure and that is the BMW group must had a speacial reason for not changing them to date. I personally feel that it takes years and years to make human beings feel about a particular brand and its characteristics. So abrupt changes do shatter or belief and opnion about a particular brand & sometimes we also get confussed. I am sure the way we are discussing, the BMW group had also gone through lot of brain storming sessions and this red light effect to the human eye must be the outcome of several suryes.
Best of luck to all and keep on helping people around the world.

Qamar
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[/b][/quote]


Well put indeed
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