The +4 does not fire from all fours at the same time; one at a time and the same holds true for the +2. That is what a BMW tech claimed. The spitfire plug is another story. Another advantage to the +4 is that they tend to last longer than the +2s but no power gained above and beyond the +2s.
A vacuum hose leak can be detected by hissing sound like (woosh) or you may want to consider spraying break fluid cleaner on the suspected area; if you idle change you know you have a vacuum leak.
platinum plugs whether it be a +2 or +4 is the WRONG plug for an m20 or m30 engine - which is what you have (I'm almost positive).
You should go with a standard copper core plug.
BTW: That doesnt make sense. If the plug were to fire one prong at a time, it would be like having 4 seperate plugs and it would fire at the wrong time all the time. Considering that the center is just the annode and the 4 poles are grounds, I don't see how that is possible.
Originally posted by sp0rky@Nov 24 2004, 07:45 AM platinum plugs whether it be a +2 or +4 is the WRONG plug for an m20 or m30 engine - which is what you have (I'm almost positive).
You should go with a standard copper core plug.
BTW: That doesnt make sense. If the plug were to fire one prong at a time, it would be like having 4 seperate plugs and it would fire at the wrong time all the time. Considering that the center is just the annode and the 4 poles are grounds, I don't see how that is possible.
Bosch Super 4 Spark Plugs
After using them ourselves we are recommending these latest spark plugs from BOSCH THE SUPER 4
A performance breakthrough from Bosch.
Bosch are used to making improvements in design, but this is a revolutionary breakthrough that is totally unique.
The Super-4 outperforms conventional spark plugs in every situation. It uses state-of-the-art 'surface-air-gap' technology, and features four thin ground electrodes with one pointed, silver-plated centre electrode. This enables the ignition spark to choose the best path for reliable ignition, and according to the load placed on the engine.
The advantages:
Increased acceleration
Less chance of misfiring
Better cold start performance
Increased engine efficiency
So it in effect chooses the best electrode to arc from at that moment in time.
Beelz
Since you saying So it in effect chooses the best electrode to arc from at that moment in time. It means also they don't fire all at once (as some tend to believe)
My question is this: can one conclude based on the above that the +4 has some cleaning (self cleaning???) effect?? i.e. firing from one arc tends to prevent buildups on the idling/off arc in that moment of the cycle? or this is asking too much of a plug??
regards
billb
Merely it has 4 ground posts to toss the single spark at, if one of the posts gets carboned up it will choose the least path of resistance meaning it will always go to the cleaner post, and with 4 to pick from they last longer due to these extra posts carbon build up is created by deposits left by the sparks negative\positive contact points so the 4 post offer more area to toss a spark at. Its One Spark Only, But 4 receptors.
Originally posted by BeelZibub@Nov 24 2004, 07:48 AM Bosch Super 4 Spark Plugs
After using them ourselves we are recommending these latest spark plugs from BOSCH THE SUPER 4
A performance breakthrough from Bosch.
Bosch are used to making improvements in design, but this is a revolutionary breakthrough that is totally unique.
The Super-4 outperforms conventional spark plugs in every situation. It uses state-of-the-art 'surface-air-gap' technology, and features four thin ground electrodes with one pointed, silver-plated centre electrode. This enables the ignition spark to choose the best path for reliable ignition, and according to the load placed on the engine.
The advantages:
Increased acceleration
Less chance of misfiring
Better cold start performance
Increased engine efficiency
So it in effect chooses the best electrode to arc from at that moment in time.
Originally posted by frank3+Nov 25 2004, 02:30 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(frank3 @ Nov 25 2004, 02:30 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-BeelZibub@Nov 24 2004, 07:48 AM Bosch Super 4 Spark Plugs
After using them ourselves we are recommending these latest spark plugs from BOSCH THE SUPER 4
A performance breakthrough from Bosch.
Bosch are used to making improvements in design, but this is a revolutionary breakthrough that is totally unique.
The Super-4 outperforms conventional spark plugs in every situation. It uses state-of-the-art 'surface-air-gap' technology, and features four thin ground electrodes with one pointed, silver-plated centre electrode. This enables the ignition spark to choose the best path for reliable ignition, and according to the load placed on the engine.
The advantages:
Increased acceleration
Less chance of misfiring
Better cold start performance
Increased engine efficiency
So it in effect chooses the best electrode to arc from at that moment in time.
Questions regarding aftermarket parts can be answered if you look around. Aftermarket parts are often reviewed in the "Product Reviews" section.....{CLICK HERE}
:welcome to the forums, look around, you can learn a lot.
I did use the +4 once did not notice much difference from the +2. As I said above they don't fire from all fours at once as many wish to believe. Dealer did recommend the +2 Bosch and I am sticking with it.
regards
billb
I took it as they fire in a cycle.. from one to two to three, etc. and I thought to myself: "How can that be possible?" Either way - regardless of how the plug fires it is not good for use in the older BMW engines. It can even cause some rough running in the earlier m50s. m20s and m30s certainly dislike any kind of platinum plug, though.
The whole issue is covered in more details in Jllphan's "product review" thread. What is interesting though is the +2 sold by the dealer are Bosch too but it reads BMW on it.
Yes sir Bill, for my car, BMW offers a twin copper diode Bosch Super plug as oem replacement. I've also read (bmpd.com) that BMW endorses a twin (not four) electrode platinum plug, but with my experience, I am sticking to oem copper.
@Nov 24 2004, 07:48 AM Bosch Super 4 Spark Plugs
After using them ourselves we are recommending these latest spark plugs from BOSCH THE SUPER 4
A performance breakthrough from Bosch.
Bosch are used to making improvements in design, but this is a revolutionary breakthrough that is totally unique.
The Super-4 outperforms conventional spark plugs in every situation. It uses state-of-the-art 'surface-air-gap' technology, and features four thin ground electrodes with one pointed, silver-plated centre electrode. This enables the ignition spark to choose the best path for reliable ignition, and according to the load placed on the engine.
The advantages:
Increased acceleration
Less chance of misfiring
Better cold start performance
Increased engine efficiency
So it in effect chooses the best electrode to arc from at that moment in time.
Originally posted by billB@Nov 23 2004, 08:49 PM The +4 does not fire from all fours at the same time; one at a time and the same holds true for the +2. That is what a BMW tech claimed. The spitfire plug is another story. Another advantage to the +4 is that they tend to last longer than the +2s but no power gained above and beyond the +2s.
A vacuum hose leak can be detected by hissing sound like (woosh) or you may want to consider spraying break fluid cleaner on the suspected area; if you idle change you know you have a vacuum leak.
:lmao2 good morning Bill. Once again, your knowledge impresses me. Where did get so much scoop on Bimmers? Say, if you had a straight 6, like I do in my 530 01 or a V8 and drove both the exact same would you expect the englife to be longer in a V8?
Originally posted by BeelZibub@Nov 24 2004, 08:48 AM Bosch Super 4 Spark Plugs
After using them ourselves we are recommending these latest spark plugs from BOSCH THE SUPER 4
A performance breakthrough from Bosch.
Bosch are used to making improvements in design, but this is a revolutionary breakthrough that is totally unique.
The Super-4 outperforms conventional spark plugs in every situation. It uses state-of-the-art 'surface-air-gap' technology, and features four thin ground electrodes with one pointed, silver-plated centre electrode. This enables the ignition spark to choose the best path for reliable ignition, and according to the load placed on the engine.
The advantages:
Increased acceleration
Less chance of misfiring
Better cold start performance
Increased engine efficiency
So it in effect chooses the best electrode to arc from at that moment in time.
In regards to choosing the best path...that is the way electricity works. It is not Bosch engineering, maybe Bosch marketing. Electricity will always choose the path of least resistance. That's why people use lightning rods.
Only one electrode ever "fires". The are all connected together so there is no voltage between the electrodes, the one that represents the least resistance will "fire".
Originally posted by agoff7+Nov 28 2004, 05:14 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(agoff7 @ Nov 28 2004, 05:14 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-BeelZibub@Nov 24 2004, 08:48 AM Bosch Super 4 Spark Plugs
After using them ourselves we are recommending these latest spark plugs from BOSCH THE SUPER 4
A performance breakthrough from Bosch.
Bosch are used to making improvements in design, but this is a revolutionary breakthrough that is totally unique.
The Super-4 outperforms conventional spark plugs in every situation. It uses state-of-the-art 'surface-air-gap' technology, and features four thin ground electrodes with one pointed, silver-plated centre electrode. This enables the ignition spark to choose the best path for reliable ignition, and according to the load placed on the engine.
The advantages:
Increased acceleration
Less chance of misfiring
Better cold start performance
Increased engine efficiency
So it in effect chooses the best electrode to arc from at that moment in time.
In regards to choosing the best path...that is the way electricity works. It is not Bosch engineering, maybe Bosch marketing. Electricity will always choose the path of least resistance. That's why people use lightning rods.
Only one electrode ever "fires". The are all connected together so there is no voltage between the electrodes, the one that represents the least resistance will "fire".
[snapback]238611[/snapback]
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I am getting off topic here and away from Bosch but I say yup Electricity takes the least resistance path. But it also takes every other path available to it. In fact Electrons take all available paths including my 1000 ohm body path!!
jll- thx 4 the link. i looked around before i posted, but some how i missed it.
very informative.
Question: Do the 4+ pose any harm to the engine?
I just sunk 45 bucks in to em, so if they don't pose a threat i'll leave em in for a while :wink
the +4s seem to be fine so far. my acceleration improved drastically. however the plugs that were in the car when i bought it were old, so i'm not sure how much better new +4s are than new regular ol' oem plugs. I am looking forward to trying the oems for comparison.
billb- there's no self cleaning that i can figure (lol). traveling the path of least reisistance however, (with 4 electrode options) should, in theory, lead to longer life. the longer arc also makes good sense to me. the bosch sales pitch is good. i guess only time will tell.
Excellent replies and inputs. I think most if not all of our members are professionals and they do know what they're talking about. When one of us (especially me) miss on one diagnostic problem, surely another professional member will get it right and correct it. That is the beauty of the 5 series members. Later :cheers
Originally posted by billB@Nov 29 2004, 08:04 PM hpacc
Excellent replies and inputs. I think most if not all of our members are professionals and they do know what they're talking about. When one of us (especially me) miss on one diagnostic problem, surely another professional member will get it right and correct it. That is the beauty of the 5 series members. Later :cheers
Bosch super 4 differ from platinum plus 4 in the construction of the center electrode. Super 4 has a silver plated center electrode whereas platinum plus 4 uses a sintered platinum rod. Electricity always follows the path of least resistance....they NEVER fire to multiple points. Both plugs use surface air-gap technology. This technology differs from air gap and surface gap technology of old in that the spark can "select" either an air gap or can "glide" over the insulator nose as it sparks. When conductive particles (carbon) exist on the insulator nose they become the path of least resistance. The four electrodes surrounding the center electrode allows the spark to occur wherever the least resistance is found. Should deposits start to build up, they are conductive, and therefore the spark is directed through them and thereby improving the cleaning of the plug. Surface air-gap "glide" is an advantage primarily during cold starts. All spark plugs given correct heat range are self-cleaning once the engine warms up. Surface air-gap technology is not a gimmick as evidence by its use in nearly all 2004 BMW models...ie FGR7DQP. Download the bosch plug catalog from this site for more info.
Originally posted by billB+Nov 24 2004, 04:33 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(billB @ Nov 24 2004, 04:33 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Beelz
Since you saying So it in effect chooses the best electrode to arc from at that moment in time. It means also they don't fire all at once (as some tend to believe)
My question is this: can one conclude based on the above that the +4 has some cleaning (self cleaning???) effect?? i.e. firing from one arc tends to prevent buildups on the idling/off arc in that moment of the cycle? or this is asking too much of a plug??
regards
billb
<!--QuoteBegin-carguy@Dec 7 2004, 03:48 AM Bosch super 4 differ from platinum plus 4 in the construction of the center electrode. Super 4 has a silver plated center electrode whereas platinum plus 4 uses a sintered platinum rod. Electricity always follows the path of least resistance....they NEVER fire to multiple points. Both plugs use surface air-gap technology. This technology differs from air gap and surface gap technology of old in that the spark can "select" either an air gap or can "glide" over the insulator nose as it sparks. When conductive particles (carbon) exist on the insulator nose they become the path of least resistance. The four electrodes surrounding the center electrode allows the spark to occur wherever the least resistance is found. Should deposits start to build up, they are conductive, and therefore the spark is directed through them and thereby improving the cleaning of the plug. Surface air-gap "glide" is an advantage primarily during cold starts. All spark plugs given correct heat range are self-cleaning once the engine warms up. Surface air-gap technology is not a gimmick as evidence by its use in nearly all 2004 BMW models...ie FGR7DQP. Download the bosch plug catalog from this site for more info.
Carguy you are more than :welcome :welcome to our forum and it seems someone answered the cleaning effect question above. Wonder if it is a Bosch marketing strategy? or in fact it does reflect reality?
Best regards
billb
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