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5-Series (E12,E28, E34, E39, E60) Chat relating to the BMW 5-Series of all generations. Specific models include: BMW 518, BMW 520, BMW 520i, BMW 530i, BMW 528i, BMW 530i, BMW 518i, BMW 524d, BMW 525i, BMW 525e, BMW 528e, BMW 540i, BMW 535i, BMW 520d, BMW 525td, BMW 525d, BMW 530d, BMW 525i/xi, BMW 530i/xi. (BMW 5-Series Forum)

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#1 (permalink) Old 10-21-2004, 06:16 PM
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The following Questions are for any Member who has a good working relationship with any BMW dealer.

On three separate occasions I tried to purchase from two different NJ BMW dealers some fluids for a 97 528i. Here what they had to say:

1.Power steering Fluid: I was given a Texaco Transmission fluid. Not too bad since it is an ATF fluid. I did post the entire story then.
2.After the flood? I had to change the differential fluid (water got to it) the response was go to an auto part store get yourself some 75W-95W and change your fluid. But sir I need the BMW good stuff- I heard you mix fluid with vitamins- Sorry can not sell it over the counter ; the fluid we have is for our service department USE ONLY!
3.Water was not too shy to get into my transmission; again off to another dealer I ran. Sir I need your help with this everlasting LIFE-TIME red stuff. Again sorry can not sell it over the counter…….I intercepted the nice Salesman over the counter with a chuckle: yah for your service department USE ONLY. But he politely replied: we will be glad to do it for you for $450! No DANKE SCHON!

My questions:

A.Other than the obvious $$$ why don’t they sell the above GOOD stuff just like any other dealer? Though they are not shy selling the pinkish Antifreeze; or better yet; they don’t feel so bad rapping a quart of BMW synthetic motor oil in one fancy genuine leather case for you TO GO!!!
B.I know they get the above fluids in bulks. Is this the only reason why they can not package it in smaller containers? Look what they can do in packaging a quart of motor oil !!

Added questions from CNN:

The congress along with the Independent Mechanics Association is working to legislate on the issue of the hidden/secret information which dealers (not BMW only) tend to hide from the public. It reached a point where vital technical information is hidden in secrets away from Joe the mechanic left him with no other choice but to send the car to be fixed by the dealer.

Any thought?
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#2 (permalink) Old 10-21-2004, 10:16 PM
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wow...they like to rip us off? so, what you planning on doing then?

You think gas is expensive? CHECK THIS OUT:
Lipton Ice Tea 16 oz $1.19 ...........$9.52 per gallon
Ocean Spray 16 oz $1.25 .......... $10.00 per gallon
Gatorade 20 oz $1.59 ..... $10.17 per gallon
Diet Snapple 16 oz $1.29 .......... $10.32 per gallon
Evian water9 oz $1.49..........$21.19 per gallon?
Brake Fluid 12 oz $3.15 ........... $33.60 per gallon
Pepto Bismol 4 oz $3.85 ........ $123.20 per gallon
Vick's Nyquil 6 oz $8.35 .... $178.13 per gallon
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#3 (permalink) Old 10-21-2004, 10:27 PM
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althought i have never purchased any fluids from the bimmer dealer here, they are really cool, couple of times when we were fixin the bimmer and got stuck, u can call em up and they explain everything to you, with diagrams and all..
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#4 (permalink) Old 10-22-2004, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by billB@Oct 21 2004, 05:16 PM
The following Questions are for any Member who has a good working relationship with any BMW dealer.

On three separate occasions I tried to purchase from two different NJ BMW dealers some fluids for a 97 528i. Here what they had to say:

1.Power steering Fluid: I was given a Texaco Transmission fluid. Not too bad since it is an ATF fluid. I did post the entire story then.
2.After the flood? I had to change the differential fluid (water got to it) the response was go to an auto part store get yourself some 75W-95W and change your fluid. But sir I need the BMW good stuff- I heard you mix fluid* with vitamins- Sorry can not sell it over the counter ; the fluid we have is for our service department USE ONLY!
3.Water was not too shy to get into my transmission; again off to another dealer I ran. Sir I need your help with this everlasting LIFE-TIME red stuff. Again sorry can not sell it over the counter…….I intercepted the nice Salesman over the counter with a chuckle: yah for your service department USE ONLY. But he politely replied: we will be glad to do it for you for $450! No DANKE SCHON!

My questions:

A.Other than the obvious $$$ why don’t they sell the above GOOD stuff just like any other dealer? Though they are not shy selling the pinkish Antifreeze; or better yet; they don’t feel so bad rapping a quart of BMW synthetic motor oil in one fancy genuine leather case for you TO GO!!!
B.I know they get the above fluids in bulks. Is this the only reason why they can not package it in smaller containers? Look what they can do in packaging* a quart of motor oil !!

Added questions from CNN:

The congress along with the Independent Mechanics Association is working to legislate on the issue of the hidden/secret information which dealers (not BMW only) tend to hide from the public. It reached a point where vital technical information is hidden in secrets away from Joe the mechanic left him with no other choice but to send the car to be fixed by the dealer.

Any thought?
[snapback]215741[/snapback]

Funny stuff, I am into the "after-market" fluids.....did my own synthetic oil change, FRAM filter, K&N air filter, next is Royal Purple Trans/Diff oil, Bosch Platnum+4 plugs......its all happening outside of the BMW dealership world....HAAA I love it!
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#5 (permalink) Old 10-22-2004, 10:17 AM
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Nerf26
While it is true so much OEM parts are out of the dealer's control i.e. wholesale; internet parts etc. they still like to control so much vital technological information to stay in business. Wrong? right? This is not for me to decide!

The problem. it seems, these dealers whether BMW or Skoda do not invent their own fluids; they outsource it to another co. based on preset specs. which in turn becomes the new source for the same parts/fluids.
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#6 (permalink) Old 10-22-2004, 10:34 AM
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Post

Quote:
Originally posted by billB@Oct 22 2004, 09:17 AM
Nerf26
While it is true so much OEM parts are out of the dealer's control i.e. wholesale; internet parts etc. they still like to control so much vital technological information to stay in business. Wrong? right? This is not for me to decide!

The problem. it seems, these dealers whether BMW or Skoda do not invent their own fluids; they outsource it to another co. based on preset specs. which in turn becomes the new source for the same parts/fluids.
[snapback]216145[/snapback]
I would say this is true! Just came to me, I read a post that claimed the OIL used by BMW service was CASTROL Syntec...and the big deal was that someone didnt want to change to another brand of engine oil for fear of a problem between the two different oils ... almost laughable, however, the dealerships are somewhat to blame for this, as they will only endorse or "backup" there own fluids. Even worse they instill a fear of the unknown, into the fragile BMW owner who is not at all mechanically inclined. All in an effort to keep the customer DEPENDANT on BMW OEM fluids/parts/service/warrenty etc etc.

The only thing that one can take from all this - the after warrenty and post lease prices on used BMW's is GREAT....my 1998 540i 6sp, was retail $71500.00cdn, the owner got about $4Gs of options, bought out the lease and got the extended "certified series" warrenty, had complete BMW service records and only drove it to the tune of 30000miles.....I got the car for 25Gs(cdn).....

Sorry to go on about my own selfish world.....but really, it does point out an extreme example of the fear that resulted from the BMW CAR , without the secuirty blanket......cheers
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#7 (permalink) Old 10-22-2004, 06:45 PM
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How about this for a grease job?
The BMW service department offered to service the tranny in my 95 540I for only $750. Wow! what a deal! Drop the pan, replace the filter, replace the pan and add 6 liters of tranny oil refined from gold. 1 hour labor tops . Two if they take the time to really clean up the pan. So for about ?130 I bought one 5 liter jug ( it doesn't come in any other quantity ) of there there golden oil because I couldn't find it anywhere else. I had to put back in one liter of the old oil.
Any 540 auto tranny owners know of an alternative oil for this car?
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#8 (permalink) Old 10-22-2004, 08:49 PM
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Chuck540

You were soooo lucky to get 5 liters. In my case I was told it comes ONLY in 50 yes FIFTY Galons drum of Transmission Fluid for the SERVICE dep. USE ONLY!
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#9 (permalink) Old 10-22-2004, 09:30 PM
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I guess the real question is, do they import this stuff from Germany or is it made here and then label as "for BMW usage only" using the specs that the manufacturer has suggested? If the car manufacturer has suggested its own spec's, then it becomes theirs, thus no one else can buy it! So who ever supplies the fluids ships it in big containers... The same may apply to the coolant.

It's funny the other day I heard this commercial on the radio, "Chevron gasoline has been approved to be used on BMW's and other car munufacturer's..." Go figure!


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#10 (permalink) Old 10-22-2004, 09:50 PM
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LOS

If the car manufacturer has suggested its own spec's, then it becomes theirs, thus no one else can buy it! So who ever supplies the fluids ships it in big containers

If this is the case why don't they do the same for the BMW High performance Synthetic Motor Oil (SAE 5W-30) and if you look at the buttom of the dark gray container (1Quart) it spells PATENT PENDING. No mention of something like made in..........nowhere/anywhere.

The same may apply to the coolant. In fact they do sell their reddish/pinkish ice cream coolant in 1 galon containers!

Power steering fluid is sold here as Texaco ATF
No quarts for differential fluid rather big drums
Now you can say GO FIGURE again
regards
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#11 (permalink) Old 10-23-2004, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by billB@Oct 22 2004, 10:50 PM
LOS

If the car manufacturer has suggested its own spec's, then it becomes theirs, thus no one else can buy it! So who ever supplies the fluids ships it in big containers

If this is the case why don't they do the same for the BMW High performance Synthetic Motor Oil (SAE 5W-30) and if you look at the buttom of the dark gray container (1Quart) it spells PATENT PENDING. No mention of something like made in..........nowhere/anywhere.

The same may apply to the coolant. In fact they do sell their reddish/pinkish ice cream coolant in 1 galon containers!

Power steering fluid is sold here as Texaco ATF
No quarts for differential fluid rather big drums
Now you can say GO FIGURE again
regards
billb
[snapback]216465[/snapback]
When i got my 99 540 back in march it was a little low on power steering fluid so i went to thier parts dept to get a bottle. They just gave me quaker state synthetic ATF fluid. They even offered to top it off for me. sweet! hehe (no they didn't charge me).
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#12 (permalink) Old 10-23-2004, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alin10123+Oct 23 2004, 07:09 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alin10123 @ Oct 23 2004, 07:09 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-billB@Oct 22 2004, 10:50 PM
LOS

If the car manufacturer has suggested its own spec's, then it becomes theirs, thus no one else can buy it! So who ever supplies the fluids ships it in big containers

If this is the case why don't they do the same for the BMW High performance Synthetic Motor Oil (SAE 5W-30) and if you look at the buttom of the dark gray container (1Quart) it spells PATENT PENDING. No mention of something like made in..........nowhere/anywhere.

The same may apply to the coolant. In fact they do sell their reddish/pinkish ice cream coolant in 1 galon containers!

Power steering fluid is sold here as Texaco ATF
No quarts for differential fluid rather big drums
Now you can say GO FIGURE again
regards
billb
[snapback]216465[/snapback]
When i got my 99 540 back in march it was a little low on power steering fluid so i went to thier parts dept to get a bottle. They just gave me quaker state synthetic ATF fluid. They even offered to top it off for me. sweet! hehe (no they didn't charge me).
[snapback]216545[/snapback]
[/b][/quote]

You see this is the point I was trying to make back in the coolant post - You have all had totally different experiences from different bmw franchise's - couldn't this be because each one is free to source it's own fluids (again based on price or quality) and as long as they fit into the BMW RECOMMENDED SPEC you could have a multitude of different fluids floating around in BMW's. If BMW recommend Castrol synthetic as their recommended oil but Audi recommend Duckhams is this because they have built their engines around their respective choice - I doubt it, more like they got a better supply deal from their respective choice! Obviously the likes of Castrol would offer huge discounts to BMW to have their brand splashed all through the usr manuals as the recommended BMW brand. However this doesn't mean when you come to do an oil change YOU have to use Castrol, why not use the Duckhams equivalent??? It's good enough for Audi (Don't know what audi recommend , just using them as an examle).

Some people say you should always buy the manufacturers stufF, I disagree, I think you should buy whatever you like as long as it is of the same (or better) quality as the manufactures recommendation (ie. if bmw use castrol dot3 brake fluid there's absolutely no reason not to buy dot3 brake fluid from a different manufacturer, it's not the castrol bit which is important but the dot3!)
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#13 (permalink) Old 10-23-2004, 01:40 PM
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To: BEEL Z. Your argument
Some people say you should always buy the manufacturers stufF, I disagree, I think you should buy whatever you like as long as it is of the same (or better) quality as the manufactures recommendation

is granted EXCEPT
A. who is going to decide on the better quality issue, me or you? and
B. We'll be running the risk of BMW wrath in the following scenario:
1. USE of any other oil (not approved by Bmw will cause a non-warrantable Transmission Failure. For example?
2. Prior to replacing a GM five speed Transmission/ZF transmission an authorization code MUST be obtained from the BMW technical Hotlines (i.e reprogramming etc)
Thus the key word is not quality as much as it is BMW APPROVAL of what constitutes quality! another example?
Some 528i has a GM transmission (In the american vs. the german post who said chevy is bad?) from 2/96-8/99. Approved fluid is
Unical Dexron lll-D Multi-purpose ATF
Castrol Dexron lll-Mercon
Texaco ATF Mercon-Dexron lll
Life-time fill as of 9/95 vehicle production
in 9/99 USE Texaco ETL 8072B
life-time fill.

P.S. Dear Beel Z is this a monopoly or an ultimate care for the ultimate customers wallet. That is mine and/or YOURS???
regards
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#14 (permalink) Old 10-23-2004, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by billB@Oct 23 2004, 07:40 PM
To: BEEL Z. Your argument
Some people say you should always buy the manufacturers stufF, I disagree, I think you should buy whatever you like as long as it is of the same (or better) quality as the manufactures recommendation

is granted EXCEPT
A. who is going to decide on the better quality issue, me or you? and
B. We'll be running the risk of BMW wrath in the following scenario:
1. USE of any other oil (not approved by Bmw will cause a non-warrantable Transmission Failure. For example?
2. Prior to replacing a GM five speed Transmission/ZF transmission an authorization code MUST be obtained from the BMW technical Hotlines (i.e reprogramming etc)
Thus the key word is not quality as much as it is BMW APPROVAL of what constitutes quality! another example?
Some 528i has a GM transmission (In the american vs. the german post who said chevy is bad?) from 2/96-8/99. Approved fluid is

Castrol Dexron lll-Mercon
Texaco ATF Mercon-Dexron lll
Life-time fill as of 9/95 vehicle production
in 9/99 USE Texaco ETL 8072B
life-time fill.

P.S. Dear Beel Z is this a monopoly or an ultimate care for the ultimate customers wallet. That is mine and/or YOURS???
regards
billb
[snapback]216775[/snapback]
Now Bill you're trying to catch me out here - I will be honest and admit I have not looked through the manual for the approved fluids, BUT usually manufacturers will add their approved stuff in there somewhere - All I'm saying is look for an equivelant to what they quote (which I'm sure the franchises do) and you shouldn't go wrong. After all is Unical Dexron lll-D Multi-purpose ATF any different to Texaco ATF Mercon-Dexron lll ???- Both have to meet a particular standard to be able to market as DEXTRON 111!!! I do not believe for 1 minute that every BMW dealer/fanchise/approved repairer will use the Same fluids, so to my point - to go with the manufacturers fluids doesn't mean a GOD DAMN THING as the manufacturers franchises will use what they bloody well want to use!!! (We have already seen that your 5er and my 5er both use different coolants - mine is FULLY BMW SERVICED, -yours is FULLY SERVICED USING bmw approved fluids, does that reinvorce my argument anough???).


Bill I aim (when I have enough time) to call at least 3 local BMW dealers/servicers and tell them I need an oil top up - What oil do they recommend??? To go with the arguments given (My frien BMWBABY for one) I should be told exactly the same from all of them, NO???
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#15 (permalink) Old 10-23-2004, 05:50 PM
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BEEL Z

Will NEVER try to catch you; I couldn't even if I wanted to. It is just one more honest discussion. In fact I need your input so bad on another topic. Will E mail you in a few.

best regards
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