5-Series (E12,E28, E34, E39, E60)Chat relating to the BMW 5-Series of all generations. Specific models include: BMW 518, BMW 520, BMW 520i, BMW 530i, BMW 528i, BMW 530i, BMW 518i, BMW 524d, BMW 525i, BMW 525e, BMW 528e, BMW 540i, BMW 535i, BMW 520d, BMW 525td, BMW 525d, BMW 530d, BMW 525i/xi, BMW 530i/xi. (BMW 5-Series Forum)
Yo, just wondering if the majority of the problems with the 04 model are fixed., adn will be fixed for the 05 model . I mean.. how reliable is it, and what problems should I expect to see? I don't expect it to be as reliable as my 95 toyoota camry
Originally posted by The Pentium Guy@Nov 16 2004, 08:21 PM Yo, just wondering if the majority of the problems with the 04 model are fixed., adn will be fixed for the 05 model . I mean.. how reliable is it, and what problems should I expect to see? I don't expect it to be as reliable as my 95 toyoota camry
Dude, I would get the 5-series over your 95 Toyota Camry any time.
Reliability is good on BMWs. Obviously they will have these problems fixed man. They've gotto live up to their standards. If you're here to bash BMW, please leave because you won't be successfull. BMWs are very reliable cars. They're at least as reliable as Toyotas or Hondas. The only reason why people see a little more problem with BMWs is because they have way more sensors in their cars than your 95 Camry, or a 2005 LS430 for that matter. Do you get what I'm saying?
They're very reliable cars. Plus, the 2004 model was the first one so obviously it was going to have a few problems. I'm pretty sure, they've fixed more than 50% of the problems.
There were a number of software and electronic problems that plagued early versions of the 04 model. In addition, some people complained about stability in cross winds and problems with run-flat tires. BMW has been resolving these problems quickly, but alas, not always to the satisfaction of early owners. My E60 was planned for December 2003 build, but the dealer convinced me to wait for the updated March 2004 production and I'm glad he did. The only problems I have are software related, namely lack of MP3 playback, removal of RDS, and removal of FM Autostore. BMW has deleted 2 features that I used routinely. This is NOT good business practice so I have sent a written complaint (along with praise for everything they did right).
I have driven a number of cars including 2 Honda Accords previously owned by my sisters, 4 Lexus models currently owned by the women in the family, 2 Nissan Maximas I owned after college, and a variety of rental cars. My opinions:
1. Nissan Maximas are drivers' cars in the same tradition as BMWs. Well put together, exciting to drive, wonderful steering feel.
2. Lexus and Toyota are made in the tradition of Mercedes: Soft supple ride, minimum driving excitement, compromised handling, very conservative interior. I rented a 2004 Toyota Camary recently, which proved to be very disappointing in brake feel, steering stability, instrument cluster, and cornering.
3. Honda and Acura are also more in the BMW tradition. Very minimalist designs, but fun to drive with good steering and suspension feel.
For me, without question the most enjoyable and satisfying driving experience has been with the three 5 series I have owned: 97 528i, 01 530i, and 04 545i. The 01 through 03 E39 is a FANTASTIC machine, but the 04 545i is easily the BEST car I have ever driven. Spend a month behind the wheel of a 545i and you'll know what I know!
Why don't we first define the concept of "reliability" before we make any judgments on any car ? We can ask ourselves: what do we mean by a reliable car? Once we reach a common ground, then and-only then- it becomes apparent to us what a reliable car is/ought to be. Once accomplished, then we start to point our fingers at whatever deemed UNRELIABLE based upon pre astablished criteria. If we think this is a fair assessment we will to continue on reading this post otherwise we will minimize it and go on talking about our rims!
This is the way I may see it:
1. If what we mean by reliability: pouring gas only, change oil every 6,000 miles and drive a worry free BMW hence reliable; then BMW is NOT that reliable; and I mean it.
2. If what we mean by reliability: buying a German car without spending one cent for maintenance, Again BMW is NOT reliable.
3. If reliability means “GOOD CAR” whatever “good” means in this context, then BMW is RELATIVELY RELIABLE. Again you may not agree with me on what constitute a true reliable car thus BMW is relative in form and content. As such it all depends on what we want out of our car; it is a matter of our personal judgments and/or expectations; that is to say BMW at its best.
Furthermore, we can and will spend hours perhaps months writing/reading posts without reaching a common ground and/or agreement.
4. For me? Reliability means superb handling, cornering, and unsurpassed performance and FUN to drive. But there is a cost associated with it, BMWs do NOT come cheap.
Thus it happened that I found what I wanted in a car and it is a Bimmer, to be sure it is a green one (not pink/yellow/white or purple) 528I. Do I have a bad taste in car or color? perhaps to some and not to others. Again it is all relative.
Now just because the other guy happens to fall in love with his “Chevy Nova” and called it every evening his heart beat of America be assured I am not going to bash him. And if I do shame on me!!
I just picked up a 2005 545 six-speed. Waited till that year model was available at the advice of my service writer and am glad I did. Most the problems I've noticed on this forum with the 04 E60 seem to have been well taken care of.
Also, you can now get NAV and Satellite radio together.
See the posting about the E60 software upgarde elewhere on this forum for more details.
Posted by BillB
Reliability means superb handling, cornering, and unsurpassed performance and FUN to drive.
I would equate handling, cornering, performance, and fun-to-drive characterists as distinctions of quality rather than reliability. Reliability is the frequency of problems encountered in the mechanical, electronic and structural systems that lead to good handling, cornering, performance, and overall fun. Whereas quality is more qualitative (i.e., a matter of subjective perception), reliability is more quantitative (i.e., a matter of objective measurements) and is based on units such as:
MTTF - Mean time to failure for a particular part or subsystem
MTTR - Mean time to repair
MTBF - Mean time between failures for any type of problem
If you browse the JD Power & Associates website (http://www.jdpower.com) you will find rankings for 2004. BMW ranks 4th or 5th on the list of Initial Quality Survey (IQS) and slightly above the industry average on "Problems per 100 Cars" (reliability scale).
Thanks for your excellent reply and Without getting too much into automotive theoretical jargons the main point of the argument is the RELATIVE meaning of RELIABILTY. Think in terms of a loose scale: while some people like you will use the JD power and IQS, to others (average Joes) a car with spoke rims is what constitutes reliability. Another guy will tell you because he drives 318I he was able to smoke an S500 on such and such highway. To the latter that is reliability. RELATIVE GOOD CAR ; RELATIVE RELIABILITY. I trust you got my point.
I think it's easy to confuse the meanings of "quality" and "reliability." A car that has good performance and can keep up with a Merc S500 might increase its owner's satisfaction. The owner would believe that he paid less money, got a lot of value for the money, and is very happy overall with his decision and with the product. This is what JD Power calls "Initial Quality Survey" and it includes such factors as "Most Appealing Car" or "Highest Owner Satisfaction Rating." These are all QUALITY factors.
Reliability, however, is something different. Reliability is a measure of problems and breakdowns in the car. Poor reliability certainly impacts the perception of quality! And conversely, high reliability equates with high quality, but whereas "quality" takes many factors--both subjective and objective--into account, reliability is a quantitative assessment of the type and frequency of problems.
These replies do NOT constitute disagreemt by any means; as such your argument is well taken; again, and again the crux of my argument hinges upon the notion that humans understanding of RELIABILITY is RELATIVE. i.e. Bin laden can marry up to 6, I can not have more than one woman. While women in some African tribes can share/marry 2-3 men and it is acceptable. These examples illustrate the concept of "relative culture". My bimmer is the most reliable because I tend to believe so regardless of how many DIYs and dealer's visit; the same holds true for the Toyota owners.
P.S. If I did not make my point yet feel free to email me.
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