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#1 (permalink) Old 05-18-2006, 11:41 AM
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Unhappy 1/4 track times for my 540i 6speed

I went to Raceway Park, Englishtown, NJ yesterday. I ran the 1/4 mile 3 times and, unfortunately did not get that 14.0-14.2 second ¼ mile I was hoping for

Here are my slips (I am on the right, #106):
1/4 track times for my 540i 6speed-timeslips3-5.17.jpg

Here is the story behind the slips:

Run #1:
I lined up to the tree, and then did not react until the last yellow… hence the slow .548 reaction time… and then I dropped the clutch at about 3k-rpm and had VERY bad wheel hop! Great, this will not be a low 14 sec run… 2nd came and shifted quickly and pretty smoothly, same with third, then fourth came and I began to slow down. I think I hit the breaks at the end early! What an idiot! I might have actually slowed down before hitting the end of the ¼ mile! Maybe. Maybe not.

My time: 14.606 @95.11 mph

Ok, my car is very low on gas, (my range on my OBC says 17 miles!) OK, I go to the nearest gas station, I put $10 worth in, trying not to weigh the car down with a full tank. As I am filling up, I’m thinking… maybe the previous owner didn’t put premium gas? Does it really matter? Ok, time to hit the track again.

Run #2:
This time I heat my tires with a good burn out… but during the burnout, my car feels funny… the car is not moving forward, but I cannot hear the wheels spinning either…? Ok, w/e, lets race.

I launch, with a slightly better reaction time, but too much wheel spin, no hop this time. To my left was a 70 year old man in a white heavily modded Buick Cutlass Supreme. That was my brother’s first car and he claimed it was “very” powerful. I always thought his definition of power was skewed. Well this one wasn’t anything like my brother’s Buick! It was halfway down the strip before I did my 1-2 shift! My car revved wayyyy too fast in first, I felt like I was going 20mph during my 1-2 shift. Ok, third comes…. CRAP!! I’m at 6000rpm! Ok, late shift, the car was at redline, it pretty much stopped accelerating… great! I screwed this one up too! Fourth came and took it properly…. And actually stood the throttle until the shiny smooth pavement finished and the rough grainy pavement started.

My time: 14.866 @ 94.65 mph (the Buick ran a 12-second time!)

Run #3:

This launch was smoother than the first, with less wheel spin than the second, but I felt I bogged it. I was racing a 350z, so I thought this was a great match. Unfortunately, the 350z drive had a BAD launch. I was just 5 car lengths ahead of the Z, had a solid shift into 2nd as well as 3rd. I now could see the Z in my rear view mirror. I felt like I was pulling on him (or at least holding him off)… I went into fourth and still felt the same way.

My time: 14.607 @ 95.50 mph
The Z’s time: 15.141 @ 98.64 mph

How the hell? Why does he have a higher trap speed than me? He seemed to be doing the same speed as me when I was in third and fourth gear!?! Arghhhh

Ok… so what do you guys think? Is there something wrong with my car (its has a 130k miles on it)? Was it the weather (it was 85-90% humidity)? Is there something wrong with how I drove? (other than my crappy launching) Maybe I should empty my trunck next time (I had a car cover, spare, jack, heavey duty cross wrench, and maybe 20 lb of car car products back there as well.

What can I do to get a 14.2-second time? I promised myself than I will not spend money on modds until early to mid 2007… and I should not have to mod my car to run stock times!

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#2 (permalink) Old 05-18-2006, 07:34 PM
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Dude, remember my 1st disastrous run where I lost to that (ahem) Sable? His ET was 16.49, compared to my 16.79, but his top mph was only 83.85, compared to my 94.12 mph.What that means (and same applies to your run) is that I had a really bad, wheel-spinning start, but came on strong near the end.

it's curious how 2 of 3 of your runs bettered my 14.84 but none matched my trap speed of 96.40. Maybe that validates my missed 1-2 shift, and maybe I'd break 14.5 if I'd not missed it?

I think you have to consider your car's age too. I am at 126K and you are at 130K, so we're just not going to run like new. I'm thinking more of that is related to valve seat and VANOs wear than piston ring wear. I think both of us have at least a 14.2 in us, on a cool day under ideal conditions.

I've gotta go back a week from tomorrow, which is the next "street Showdown" Friday night at my local strip!

Don't get too down on yourself - how many other cars at that drag strip can run your time with 130K miles, and still coddle you with digital climate control, heated seats, 4 doors, and more airbags than a Congressional hearing? Wheeeee, this is fun! Thanks for sharing!

<span style='colorurple'>Eric S.</span>
2006 Honda Odyssey EXL-RES
2006 Honda Accord V6 EX-L Sedan
1999 BMW 540i 6-Speed (Sold to M3UOND on 9/21/06)
1991 Honda Civic Si - Occasional Beater
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#3 (permalink) Old 05-18-2006, 10:45 PM
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I think at the end of 3rd or beginning og 4th I heard some "slippage" from the tranny or maybe the clutch.. I dont really know for sure maybe it was just in my head. That might be reason I am pulling slower trap speeds...? not sure

I also think the humidity killed my engines breathing ability at the top end, especially in higher speeds at WOT... 90% humidity! It was practically raining!

Even then, I love the way this car pulls high end. At 80, in the highway I drop it into 4th and it just rockets to 120mph.

I deffinitaly understand your other point, that our cars are not just fast in the track, but a blast to just cruise around in... believe me, I'm loving it!

We'll get our 14.2's next time!

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#4 (permalink) Old 05-19-2006, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejobman
I think at the end of 3rd or beginning og 4th I heard some "slippage" from the tranny or maybe the clutch.. I dont really know for sure maybe it was just in my head. That might be reason I am pulling slower trap speeds...? not sure
Maybe our clutches are old and are prone to slippage. I am pretty certain I am on my car's original clutch, and you may be too. I am figuring on a new clutch for next year (but please, oh God, don't make it THIS year)...

As for me, I didn't notice any slippage, except for maybe a little on my second run. I've noticed more slippage on the street once though (a year ago), and thought my clutch was toast then. Seems to be OK for now....

<span style='colorurple'>Eric S.</span>
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1999 BMW 540i 6-Speed (Sold to M3UOND on 9/21/06)
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#5 (permalink) Old 05-19-2006, 09:58 AM
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[QUOTE=Eric S.]I am figuring on a new clutch for next year (but please, oh God, don't make it THIS year)...QUOTE]

Oh man I know how you feel!

How much does it cost to change the clutch in our car? Do we need to replace the flywheel as well?

My bmw-dealer-employee-friend quoted me $1200 to install a lightweight flywheel and clutch (including cost of parts)...

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#6 (permalink) Old 05-19-2006, 12:29 PM
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[QUOTE=thejobman]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric S.
I am figuring on a new clutch for next year (but please, oh God, don't make it THIS year)...QUOTE]

Oh man I know how you feel!

How much does it cost to change the clutch in our car? Do we need to replace the flywheel as well?

My bmw-dealer-employee-friend quoted me $1200 to install a lightweight flywheel and clutch (including cost of parts)...
Unfortunately, our cars (1999 540/6) have an unconventional "dual-mass" flywheel which cannot be machined (I do not know the reasons behind this), so unless you want to re-use the old flywheel, it has to be replaced. I got a quote from Crevier for about $695 for a new OEM flywheel.

On top of that is the clutch "package", which can run well over $400 for a high-quality Sachs unit. Then there's all the "while you're at it" items:
- Heater hoses that can most easily be replaced with the transmission out
- Rear main crank seal
- Short shifter (B&M, UUC, etc)

So I am figuring that the "event" known as "replacing my clutch" will cost me at least $2000 if I pay someone else to do it (and I don't have a lift). From what I've read, a lift is almost a necessity for the job.

I changed one clutch on my own, about 10 years ago in my long-gone-but-beloved 1982 Datsun pickup, and it wasn't an "easy" job, though not impossible. I really don't feel up to dealing with the clutch in my 540 at this point in my life...

There is a site out there with an excellent write-up on the subject of 540 clutch replacement. I'll add the link from home tonight (the shortcut's on my home PC).

<span style='colorurple'>Eric S.</span>
2006 Honda Odyssey EXL-RES
2006 Honda Accord V6 EX-L Sedan
1999 BMW 540i 6-Speed (Sold to M3UOND on 9/21/06)
1991 Honda Civic Si - Occasional Beater
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#7 (permalink) Old 05-19-2006, 02:37 PM
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Here is that clutch replacement write-up:
http://members.cox.net/anmillar1/index.htm

<span style='colorurple'>Eric S.</span>
2006 Honda Odyssey EXL-RES
2006 Honda Accord V6 EX-L Sedan
1999 BMW 540i 6-Speed (Sold to M3UOND on 9/21/06)
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#8 (permalink) Old 05-26-2006, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejobman
I went to Raceway Park, Englishtown, NJ yesterday. I ran the 1/4 mile 3 times and, unfortunately did not get that 14.0-14.2 second ¼ mile I was hoping for

Here are my slips (I am on the right, #106):
Attachment 23868
Looking at your slips I can tell you right off the bat that your launch needs improvement. I'm not sure if your car has an Limited Slip Differential or not, but if it doesn't and you can swing one, I would recommend that. It would go a long way towards helping you get better 1/4mi times.

Here is the story behind the slips:
Quote:
Run #1:
I lined up to the tree, and then did not react until the last yellow… hence the slow .548 reaction time…
During Test & Tune, reaction times don't mean anything. They have no effect whatsoever on your final quartermile elapsed time. The only time reaction time is figured into a timeslip is during heads up or bracket racing.
Quote:
and then I dropped the clutch at about 3k-rpm and had VERY bad wheel hop!
I have only taken my 97 540I/6 to the track once and I had the best results by slipping the clutch around 2200-2400RPM. Let the torque do the work.
Quote:
Great, this will not be a low 14 sec run… 2nd came and shifted quickly and pretty smoothly, same with third, then fourth came and I began to slow down. I think I hit the breaks at the end early! What an idiot! I might have actually slowed down before hitting the end of the ¼ mile! Maybe. Maybe not.
On most tracks, the finish line is usually where the time boards are. In most cases, you can keep your foot in it until you pass the time boards.

Quote:
Ok, my car is very low on gas, (my range on my OBC says 17 miles!) OK, I go to the nearest gas station, I put $10 worth in, trying not to weigh the car down with a full tank. As I am filling up, I’m thinking… maybe the previous owner didn’t put premium gas? Does it really matter?
YES!
I found this out the hardway. With gas prices being what they are, I decided to put some 89 octane in to see how the car would fare. Later that night my buddy with a 2004 base 350Z wanted to run my 540I from a 40 roll. We did and I got raped by over 2.5-3 car lengths. The following day, I put in 93 octane and did a rematch and I beat him. Same test conditions, same driving, just different gas and it made nearly a 5 car length difference from a 40mph roll. Next time I go to the track I'm putting in 100 octane and relocating my air temp sensor to see if the car responds any better. Beware however, most O2 sensors don't do well with exposure to high octane race fuel.

Quote:
Run #2:
This time I heat my tires with a good burn out… but during the burnout, my car feels funny… the car is not moving forward, but I cannot hear the wheels spinning either…? Ok, w/e, lets race.
FYI, if you're on normal street tires, don't do a burnout and especially don't go through the waterbox. Go around it. If you go through the waterbox and do a big smoky burnout, what you are doing is throwing water all over the inside of your tire well. After you stage, the water will drip down onto your treaded tire. At this point, you might as well be on wet pavement because thats about as much traction as you are going to get. Always go around the water box. If you pick up alot of stones in the return lane, just go around the water box, back up almost to the water box, rev the engine, drop the clutch and try to scrub the tires free of all the stones. It will only take 1 revolution of the tire to get all the crap off. After that, just reel the clutch back in and stage the car.
Quote:
My time: 14.607 @ 95.50 mph
The Z’s time: 15.141 @ 98.64 mph

How the hell? Why does he have a higher trap speed than me? He seemed to be doing the same speed as me when I was in third and fourth gear!?! Arghhhh
Lots of reasons. He was probably pulling but it was so small that you may not even have noticed. Although I would think a 3mph difference would be noticeable. Also, another thing to keep in mind is that your final trap speed is an average speed between two "traps" or two light beams that are spaced 60 feet apart right at the finish line. They calculate the time it takes for you to travel the 60 feet which gives your your average mph at the end of the quartermile.

Quote:
Ok… so what do you guys think? Is there something wrong with my car (its has a 130k miles on it)? Was it the weather (it was 85-90% humidity)? Is there something wrong with how I drove? (other than my crappy launching) Maybe I should empty my trunck next time (I had a car cover, spare, jack, heavey duty cross wrench, and maybe 20 lb of car car products back there as well.
The weight certainly didn't help but I think the single biggest improvement is going to be you. Just practice! Also, you might want to start saving for a clutch. My 1997 540I has 126kmi on it and it is on its original clutch and it is infact slipping only between gears when I'm racing someone. It doesn't slip during normal acceleration, only at really fast gear changes.
That said, if you don't have a modified Clutch Delay Valve, you may want to look into one. In fact I have a used one (in perfect working condition and cheap!) for sale if you are interested. Check with Zeckhausen Racing for a picture of what a CDV looks like it.
Quote:
What can I do to get a 14.2-second time? I promised myself than I will not spend money on modds until early to mid 2007… and I should not have to mod my car to run stock times!
Practice, practice, practice. I've been drag racing various cars for many years now. I was able to squeeze a 9.00@80mph out of my stock 97 540I 6 speed in the 1/8th mile which translates roughly to a 13.87@100-102mph and this was with two clogged OEM BMW catalytic converters. Here is my timeslip:

And here is the video. In the video the time board was malfunctioning so it didn't display the correct time, but if you listen closely to the announcer at the end, he announces my "9 flat at 80mph".
http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...EE2AFFC6A2.htm
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#9 (permalink) Old 05-26-2006, 12:13 PM
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Thanks for the advice!

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#10 (permalink) Old 05-26-2006, 01:27 PM
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Wow, great suggestions, ForceFed. Regarding the burnout, though, I did exactly what you said NOT to do on my second run, and I got what I felt was an INCREDIBLE launch! I didn't burnout or anything on my first run and it was "Wheelspin City", on my way to a miserable 16+ second 1/4.

I agree that practice will help, and was looking forward to running more today. However, I must now announce my retirement from drag racing, at least until next Spring after what will hopefully be Bonus Time again (whereupon I can get a new clutch). I can tell my wife is really worried about potentially expensive breakage, and with a new clutch costing $1500+ for starters, I understand how she feels. She hasn't "forbidden" me to go - she almost never would, and that's why I love her and married her - but I know how she feels about financial security and I know how it would make her feel if something expensive DID break, so I'm just going to step away for awhile. We have children and and a house to maintain too, so for now I'll lay low.

I'll be back next year, though, and by then I should be at about 145K miles, so it will be interesting!

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2006 Honda Odyssey EXL-RES
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1999 BMW 540i 6-Speed (Sold to M3UOND on 9/21/06)
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#11 (permalink) Old 05-26-2006, 02:51 PM
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No problem guys.
I totally understand where you are coming from, from a financial perspective. These cars are not cheap to maintain or fix. Thats why when the time comes, I'm going to be doing the clutch myself with the help of a very experienced friend. It will be my first clutch venture so I'll try to take lots of pics for a walkthrough.
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#12 (permalink) Old 05-26-2006, 03:58 PM
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Eric, I end up having to wait till bonus time for a lot of things also. I almost put off buying the car till then but the deal was too good. I might do a lightwieght flywheel/clutch upgrade in mid '07...

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#13 (permalink) Old 05-26-2006, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejobman
Eric, I end up having to wait till bonus time for a lot of things also. I almost put off buying the car till then but the deal was too good. I might do a lightwieght flywheel/clutch upgrade in mid '07...
Yep, this year's bonus got blown on the suspension upgrades, new idler pulleys and tensioners, and the unexpected set of tires. Bonus time for me is mid-late March, so I have quite a few months to wait. That's OK, though. At my last company the bonus was spelled "bone-us", and consisted of $0.00 annually.

PS - Dude, I loved you new sig with the Angel Eyes, even before it was animated. Verrry nice.

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#14 (permalink) Old 05-31-2006, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric S.
At my last company the bonus was spelled "bone-us", and consisted of $0.00 annually.
Tell me about it. I use to work for a generic drugs pharma co. and they gave us the donut every year. I was working full time and going to school full time, and on top of it all, there were times I work 70-80 hours a week for a Oracle ERP migration.... and even after that... what did I get?

A donut!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejobman
Tell me about it. I use to work for a generic drugs pharma co. and they gave us the donut every year. I was working full time and going to school full time, and on top of it all, there were times I work 70-80 hours a week for a Oracle ERP migration.... and even after that... what did I get?

A donut!

:
preachin to the choir...

I hear ya on that. Although, i have to say my company has been pretty good to me for advancement in the last few years so I'll keep my complaints to the minimum....My boss is pretty cool when it comes to expenses too - he knows how he cant give us big bonuses, so he lets us pretty much expense what we want on out of town trips, take the gang out for dinner, any toys we want, etc etc..

ok, can you say THREAD HIJACK??

back to the topic at hand... very nice advice, Forcefed.. in my younger days I used to drag race my 5.0L mustang and I agree with your take on the waterbox.. I got much better launches without going through it.

Jason / 1997 528i
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