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3-Series (E46, E90) Chat relating to the BMW 3-Series from 1999 to Current. Models include: BMW 316i, BMW 318i, BMW 318Ci, BMW 320i, BMW 323i, BMW 325i, BMW 330i, BMW 328 Ci, BMW 328i, BMW 325i/xi, BMW 330Ci, BMW 320d, BMW 330d, BMW 335d.

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Old 01-27-2006, 09:07 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Whats the point?

Just stole a 2002 325cic from work today to drive for the weekend, and its a manual with sports package, and it just.. feels so isolated.. whats the point in driving a manual if you cant enjoy *feeling* the car?

Might as well just buy an auto and call it a day.. unless I'm missing something?

Any input on the (not so) obvious benefits I'd love to hear, since this is a car I'm considering buying since we own it for the right money.
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Old 01-27-2006, 11:41 PM   #2 (permalink)
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manaul is better

better speed
better fuel economy
better gear selection when needed
better racing
better knoledge of the engine state

autos are for lazy fat americans who pay 3 cents a gallon and love poluting the world

remember kyoto...


ps...a bit harsh,but u get my point
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Old 01-31-2006, 12:06 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I agree. I have never owned an automatic that I liked. (exept for my old Chevy pick-up). There's no comparison to the feel, sound and true driving joy of rowing that leather-wrapped 5-speed shifter through the buttery-smooth shift gates. The engine revving, the tach bouncing, the subtle--yet not overpowering--faint lurch as you let the clutch up through each perfectly timed shift. I mean, c'mon, man---this IS the ULTIMATE DRIVING MACHINE! You might as well freakin' drive it!

I am an....(sigh)....American....and I have to say that Americans have earned (and deserve) their poor reputation for being lazy, fat and spoiled. In our modern, work-a-day world of rush-hour traffic, morning Starbucks lattes and fast-food on the go, an automatic is usually the most "practical" choice. Especially when you don't really want or need to enjoy the fine German engineering, performance and craftmanship that goes into these machines. After all, you're just driving to work and taking the kiddies to soccer practice, so who cares, right? WRONG!

If you really want an automatic and you even have to think about the reasons why to purchase a stick, then you should just buy an automatic and save yourself the trouble. The rest of us on the other hand, will never consider spoiling the true satisfying experience of the manual transmission in our cars.

In all the hours I have spent stuck in rush-hour traffic on the I-405 and other Los Angeles freeways, I will still always prefer a manual transmission over an automatic. It's just the true car lover in my blood. But that's just me. There are plenty of fast autos out there that "get the job done" and are just as quick as modern manuals (Steptronic, etc.).

Although I am sure I speak for the hundreds of thousands of manual transmission lovers out there when I say, "If you have to ask, don't bother."



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Old 01-31-2006, 12:11 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by storme

autos are for lazy fat americans who pay 3 cents a gallon and love poluting the world

remember kyoto...


ps...a bit harsh,but u get my point
Buy a catalytic converter kthx~
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Old 01-31-2006, 12:36 PM   #5 (permalink)
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errrm

they come with them already
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Old 01-31-2006, 01:18 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I have a Steptronic transmission. As much as I love it, I had wished that I had gotten a Manual. There have been reasons for buying the Steptronic, but I will never get the true satisfaction that I would have if I had gotten a Manual. Steptronic transmissions can be fun to drive, especially driving in M mode, but won't perform like a Manual. Like the above post have mentioned, to really, truly enjoy the German engineering put into these cars, Manual transmissions are the way to go.

The next BMW that I will purchase (if I ever do) will have a manual transmission. If I don't purchase a new BMW, I have considered swapping the transmission out for a Manual. This won't happen in the very near future.
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Old 01-31-2006, 02:59 PM   #7 (permalink)
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What he is saying is that even in the manual, he does not get a good feel. This is a direct criticism of the e46, not a matter of transmissions. I have no e46 experience, so I have nothing to say.

If you want to advocate for something, it is not for auto or manual, but rather for or against the e46's fun-to-drive dynamics.
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Old 01-31-2006, 09:35 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Good point DRZ.

I, too, am interested in this thread, as I'm considering a 2001 manual 330 coupe...should I stick with an E36 if I'm in it for the driving experience?
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Old 01-31-2006, 09:39 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Also interested...
I know there is some kind of delay valve in the clutch circuit that prevents snappy(er) shifts. The delay on E46 is quite long compared to older models and Z and M cars.
Does this sound like it nuke?
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Old 02-01-2006, 06:53 AM   #10 (permalink)
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there is no clutch delay valve on the e46. the clutch is just soft, with a high take up point, for some reason bmw made it that way. it cannot be dialed out, cos it is self adjusting. you can buy a clutch stop for $20, but be careful not to have it too high (starter is interlocked).

re: orginal post: if you are even asking that question, i do not think it is in you. matters not e36, 46 or chevy nova. this is soooo subjective...

i could not imagine driving an automatic, of any sort. even super shitty stick shift to my driving is better than the new mercedes 7-speed auto. same goes for traction control etc, which i disengage the moment i start my 330i. all subjective, really, cos i WILL NOT think of disengaging the ABS even for a second ....
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Old 02-01-2006, 04:32 PM   #11 (permalink)
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so this is all made up then?
http://e46m3performance.com/installs/lock-valve/
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Old 02-01-2006, 06:38 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Am I just a crazy American who's grown up with too many sh*tty cars or do I not see the point of all this?

I guess in my simple-minded and otherwise shallow view, it really doesn't matter because I've only driven three BMW sticks (my 1980 320i, which was a piece of crap, my friend's 2006 330ci, which is the sexiest and most enjoyable car I've driven, and my own 2002 325i, which is the second best.)
The 325i I own has a less touchy clutch than the new one, but either way I would never fathom the idea of buying an auto or a Steptronic instead of a real manual---regardless of the insignificant differences in the years' and models' feel.

I owned a beat up 1968 Chevy 1-ton pick-up 350 for a long time that had a 4-speed on the floor and "granny gears" in the back. 1st gear maxed out at like 7mph and 2nd wasn't much better. 4th redlined at about 75mph--and it was a blast!

Am I just still to adolescent, or is anyone else out there with me on this one?

Like I said earlier, if you have to ask someone else whether you should own a stick or an automatic, just buy the auto. You will surely love it! Save the stick for someone who really wants to drive it.
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Old 02-01-2006, 07:29 PM   #13 (permalink)
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agree with everything said here.:lol:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean02
Am I just a crazy American who's grown up with too many sh*tty cars or do I not see the point of all this?

I guess in my simple-minded and otherwise shallow view, it really doesn't matter because I've only driven three BMW sticks (my 1980 320i, which was a piece of crap, my friend's 2006 330ci, which is the sexiest and most enjoyable car I've driven, and my own 2002 325i, which is the second best.)
The 325i I own has a less touchy clutch than the new one, but either way I would never fathom the idea of buying an auto or a Steptronic instead of a real manual---regardless of the insignificant differences in the years' and models' feel.

I owned a beat up 1968 Chevy 1-ton pick-up 350 for a long time that had a 4-speed on the floor and "granny gears" in the back. 1st gear maxed out at like 7mph and 2nd wasn't much better. 4th redlined at about 75mph--and it was a blast!

Am I just still to adolescent, or is anyone else out there with me on this one?

Like I said earlier, if you have to ask someone else whether you should own a stick or an automatic, just buy the auto. You will surely love it! Save the stick for someone who really wants to drive it.
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Old 02-01-2006, 07:39 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Have you made a decision about the car, nukester?
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