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3-Series (E46, E90) Chat relating to the BMW 3-Series from 1999 to Current. Models include: BMW 316i, BMW 318i, BMW 318Ci, BMW 320i, BMW 323i, BMW 325i, BMW 330i, BMW 328 Ci, BMW 328i, BMW 325i/xi, BMW 330Ci, BMW 320d, BMW 330d, BMW 335d.

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Old 12-16-2003, 03:03 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Is their a down side to the 'X' aside from cost. I am in the NE and get a varaible amount of snow but the last two years were rough and it looks like this one will not be any better.

Everything tell me a 330Xi will be better than a 330i in the snow but is their a down side to having an X with regards to performance, fun factor, drivability etc during the summer

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Old 12-16-2003, 03:40 PM   #2 (permalink)
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of course any all wheel drive model will have less HP vesus a rear wheel driven model of the same. but fun factor should be just fine. it is a 330 , there is suffician power there. what exactly are you looking for in a car besides winter stability?
also note that myself and other members on this board are from cold climates , and myself personally dont do so bad in the snow and my car does not have traction control options that come standard now a days.

p.s- we had a half foot of snow just yesterday :lol:
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Old 12-16-2003, 09:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Let me see.... well i dont have the xi ..nor do I have a BMW, but I have AWD on my Audi A4 quattro.

Basically with AWD, youll have a safer car with more traction and stability. Youll drive in the snow and rain like it was dry asphalt and hydroplaning is a thing of the past. You'll never burn out or screech your tires even with a hard launch because all 4 tires will catch immediately. Thats the upside.

Downside is that youll lose a bit more power due to the drive train. But its not that much more...just a few HP. Having AWD myself, I wouldnt give it up for anything but its up to you. You might have a little more fun with RWD because its easier to drift and such but you can drift with AWD too.


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Old 12-16-2003, 09:42 PM   #4 (permalink)
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all wheel drive almost completely destroys the excellent handling characteristics of a regular 3 series. drive a regular rwd car shortly after trying an X, the difference is monumental. no need to wag the tail, you can tell at 20 mph. it feels like very much like audi a4, i.e. does not communicate through the steering wheel. just goes where you point it, sort of like a buick or some such thing...

unless you live in the tundra, or you are ok with a dull car, i'd never go for an x.

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Old 12-17-2003, 10:22 AM   #5 (permalink)
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a buick? Thanks for insulting the car that i have. But youre absolutely wrong. theres a reason why the EVO and the STi also come in AWD and not RWD. Thats because AWD is good for handling not bad. Obviously you have very limited experience with AWD cars.

I drive a 325i (RWD) and the A4 (AWD) everyday and i can tell you that my car is the winner when it comes to handling.
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Old 12-17-2003, 10:43 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally posted by RetroSpek@Dec 17 2003, 11:02 AM
a buick? Thanks for insulting the car that i have. But youre absolutely wrong. theres a reason why the EVO and the STi also come in AWD and not RWD. Thats because AWD is good for handling not bad. Obviously you have very limited experience with AWD cars.

I drive a 325i (RWD) and the A4 (AWD) everyday and i can tell you that my car is the winner when it comes to handling.
i dont remember how it works but awd handle better on the whole vesus rwd. however i dont recall any awd cars ever breaking over the 1.00g skidpad test. but yet again i could be wrong.
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Old 12-17-2003, 11:38 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Yea i dont remember too. I remember the new AWD b6 S4 getting a better track time than the e46 m3 (top gear).
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Old 12-18-2003, 06:29 AM   #8 (permalink)
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hahahaha,

go kiss your offended car in the mouth, 'cos it may not start tomorrow. :P

imho:

handling is very different than roadholding or whatever you want to call the lateral grip numbers. the grip numbers are usually measured by bozos driving the car in a circle, wating for it to break traction. good for checking if tyre rubber adheres, but not much else.

admittedly, i have not owned, or raced a 4wd. i had the opportunity to drive an a4 quattro for two weeks daily, and test drive the wrx, both the old and the sti, and had a 330xi for a week as a loner from bmw dealer. quite enough to tell these apart in my book..., and yeah i can drive them fast, so what.

again imho, there is no steering feel in any of these cars remotely comparable to a properly executed rwd, such as the e46, but also even old mbz such as w201 ('80 190).

this is quite natural, and expected, since having drive on the front wheels loads the suspension.

i think the only advantage of 4wd is apparent in world rally, where the cars often break traction even on asphalt, and are driven at insane speeds in slippery terrrain. there is not much advantage to 4wd on track: audis are not ruling the touring class in europe, and any other form of racing uses rwd exclusively. very likely due to handling accuracy i am refering to.

also, in any local autocross a4s come first only if it rains.... long time ago, i was able to whip some audi 80 quattro jokers using a rear wheel driven 3-series....

there being so very few nicely set up cars on the market, i cherish the rwd perhaps too much..., peace brother,

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Old 12-18-2003, 07:45 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by peterkulesza@Dec 18 2003, 03:09 PM
i think the only advantage of 4wd is apparent in world rally ...
I have to disagree here. Especially considering most people don't drive in World Rally on their way to work, the store, pick up the kids. The TRUE benefit of AWD is when it is placed in the hands of a driver who is not comfortable driving RWD or FWD in snow/rain/inclement weather.

How a car performs in a race/rally/, IMHO, has absolutely no application to everyday use. You realize that rally cars are tweaked right? It's not an out-of-the-box WRX STi that they are racing out there. So the car you buy is not the same as the rally car, it's also not completely different.

If you get a lot of snow, and feel that you would be safer with AWD then get it, the loss of HP (negligible) shouldn't be a concern as you are not considering the car because of how fast it goes but how safe you feel in it when it snows. With consideration to driver responce from the car itself, please. The difference, again, can't so substantial that it would make that much of a difference.
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Old 12-18-2003, 10:33 AM   #10 (permalink)
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i agree with the safe and easy to drive in snow etc. all true.

'course stock setups are different. however there is a lesson to be learned from the pros, and that is that the trade-off of worse traction of rwd for better accuracy and handling is often made.

i do not drive with nowhere near scca competitive skill, but i can definitely tell the difference between dull steering response and not. in my hands, at normal driving speeds, rwd is so much more eganging and just plain better to drive!!!. again, how fast is not the issue here, but how much feedback the car gives you. i could not give rats arse about horsepower, in fact i'd take a good handling car over a more powerful one any day (corvettes and most american muscle being the case..)

to me the difference is HUGE!!

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Old 12-18-2003, 10:48 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally posted by peterkulesza@Dec 18 2003, 07:13 PM
i agree with the safe and easy to drive in snow etc. all true.

'course stock setups are different. however there is a lesson to be learned from the pros, and that is that the trade-off of worse traction of rwd for better accuracy and handling is often made.

i do not drive with nowhere near scca competitive skill, but i can definitely tell the difference between dull steering response and not. in my hands, at normal driving speeds, rwd is so much more eganging and just plain better to drive!!!. again, how fast is not the issue here, but how much feedback the car gives you. i could not give rats arse about horsepower, in fact i'd take a good handling car over a more powerful one any day (corvettes and most american muscle being the case..)

to me the difference is HUGE!!

peter
I can completely understand that.

However, drivers like you are more of the exception than the norm on the raod. Where you crave driver feedback the majority of drivers crave heated seats. See what I'm saying?

Me? I enjoy RWD over the rest.
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Old 12-18-2003, 02:11 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Well, i guess i just have a different opinion. But saying that my car handles like a buick just shows how "biased" and "ignorant" you are when it comes to AWD.
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Old 12-18-2003, 10:15 PM   #13 (permalink)
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bro:

PEACE!!!!

sorry about this buick thing, just a mataphoric expression...

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Old 12-19-2003, 03:03 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Isn't this why there are so many different auto manufacturers as well as models? Everyone has their own reason for buying a particular car, be it AWD or RWD or even FWD. I think everyone here has valid points about the different cars. True, a rear wheel drive is going to feel completely different than an all wheel drive. True, there is a power loss with an AWD not associated with a RWD of the same car/engine. Not to mention the added weight. However, is does come in handy during winter climates and when pushed through hair pin turns with your foot to the floor. Whatever you choose, choose it because you want it. Then we can gather all the various cars/drivetrain setups and in the spirit of Mills Lane

"LET'S GET IT ON"
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