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3-Series (E36) Chat relating to the BMW 3-Series from 1992-1999. Autodoodad Specific models include: BMW 316i, BMW 318i, BMW 318iS/ti, BMW 320, BMW 323, BMW 320, BMW 324, BMW 325, BMW 328.

 
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#1 (permalink) Old 09-14-2004, 12:13 PM
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#2 (permalink) Old 09-14-2004, 01:07 PM
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Darrell, Unlucky mate, I feel your pain!

When you bought it did they not offer any sort of guarantee/warrantee?

I would have thought that considering you only bought the car a month ago that they would offer you the parts at trade + vat and some sort of discounted labour too.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure where you stand legally but you could try a "Money Claim Online" claim which handles small claims below 5K and only costs 80 to make the claim.

Other than that Im not sure what you can do

Sorry chap

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#3 (permalink) Old 09-15-2004, 04:37 AM
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Thanks J,
I'm going to push it through the small claims court. I have taken legal advice from 3 separate sources and all 3 suggest I have a solid case to recover at least some of the money if not all, apparently the judges tend to fall on the side of the consumer and have a particular dislike for car traders.

I'll keep you briefed on how I'm doing

Cheers

Darrell
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#4 (permalink) Old 09-15-2004, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarrellS@Sep 15 2004, 04:17 AM
Thanks J,
I'm going to push it through the small claims court. I have taken legal advice from 3 separate sources and all 3 suggest I have a solid case to recover at least some of the money if not all, apparently the judges tend to fall on the side of the consumer and have a particular dislike for car traders.

I'll keep you briefed on how I'm doing

Cheers

Darrell
Darrell,

Stick it to the man!

Have you tried contacting the Citizens Advice Bureau? They are extremely helpful when it comes to consumer complaints and very often give FREE legal advice as long as you earn below a certain amount.

If you haven't tried them give them a call...it costs nothing.

Good luck and do keep us all posted as I like to hear about a succesful claim against any stealership

J...

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#5 (permalink) Old 09-15-2004, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarrellS@Sep 14 2004, 11:53 AM
It's official Pinegarage in Beaconsfield are a rogue trader. I bought my 323i SE from them on the 7th August this year. Less than 30 days later it's in the garage with a blown head gasket and possibly requiring a head skim.

When I approached Pinegarage to see what they were prepared to do to help me they told me to F**k off in no uncertain terms. So I advised them of the Sale of Goods Act and their answer was "See you in court, if you think you're getting anything out of me then you're a c**t".

So be advised do not buy from these people they are worse than unscrupulous they are bandits.
what is the year of the car? the mileage? I understand your frustration, but for all the other posters here lets consider a few things. Did you have the car checked by an independant shop before your purchase? Did it have really big miles on it? did you hammer on it? auto cross it? track it? check your oil ever?

Is this a case of dealer being a lowlife and selling a known bad car or is it a case of " well damn i don't understand it worked fine yesterday" Well in my experience everything always works perfectly right up until the day it doesn't. Sounds like i am being a smart ass but think about it.


If you have to have the head skimmed (we call it machined or surfaced here in the states) is it becuase it was warped? did it get warped because it overheated? Did you perhaps have a coolant leak and the car overheated?

Please provide more information before you expect us to side with you and calle=r you dealer scum. Maybe it is just a case of shit happening.
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#6 (permalink) Old 09-15-2004, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by nycbmw325is+Sep 15 2004, 11:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nycbmw325is @ Sep 15 2004, 11:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-DarrellS@Sep 14 2004, 11:53 AM
It's official Pinegarage in Beaconsfield are a rogue trader. I bought my 323i SE from them on the 7th August this year. Less than 30 days later it's in the garage with a blown head gasket and possibly requiring a head skim.

When I approached Pinegarage to see what they were prepared to do to help me they told me to F**k off in no uncertain terms. So I advised them of the Sale of Goods Act and their answer was "See you in court, if you think you're getting anything out of me then you're a c**t".

So be advised do not buy from these people they are worse than unscrupulous they are bandits.
what is the year of the car? the mileage? I understand your frustration, but for all the other posters here lets consider a few things. Did you have the car checked by an independant shop before your purchase? Did it have really big miles on it? did you hammer on it? auto cross it? track it? check your oil ever?

Is this a case of dealer being a lowlife and selling a known bad car or is it a case of " well damn i don't understand it worked fine yesterday" Well in my experience everything always works perfectly right up until the day it doesn't. Sounds like i am being a smart ass but think about it.


If you have to have the head skimmed (we call it machined or surfaced here in the states) is it becuase it was warped? did it get warped because it overheated? Did you perhaps have a coolant leak and the car overheated?

Please provide more information before you expect us to side with you and calle=r you dealer scum. Maybe it is just a case of shit happening. [/b][/quote]
Hey nyc...that is very diplomatic of you but let's face it most stealerships have a bad reputation...i can think of many examples where they have TRIED to rip me off but as I have a friend who is a mechanic they have not succeeded!

I would love to believe that this vendor had no idea about the problems with their car - but their very knee-jerk reaction to his complaints lead me to believe that they are not as innocent as you think...

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#7 (permalink) Old 09-15-2004, 01:02 PM
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Guys let me fill you in on a couple of things firstly I'm no mechanic but I'm no dumbf**k either.
The car is a 96 323i SE with 75K on the clock. Before I purchased it I did a check with BMW UK and it had been dealer serviced up until one year ago for which there was no service history and for whcih the dealer that had serviced it from new is sending me all the details. Checking the mileage at it's last recorded service against the MOT certificate and looking at the mileages between services etc I had no reason to believe this car to be a rogue and when I test drove it, which I did 3 times, it drove like a dream.

When I negotiated the price for ths car and managed to reduce it by a few hundred pounds the dealer refused to give me a warranty saying it would mean him losing on the deal to which I thought fair do's. I bought the car and then arranged for a local mechanic to come over and put new discs and pads on the front. He had a problem getting the bonnet open but when he did and he was looking for the problem with the catch he noticed that it had had a new radiator and that it appeared to be a very recent fit as it was very clean. After a few weeks it started to run lumpy so I booked it in for a service ( Inspection 2)and the 134 check that BMW do and it was whilst they were doing this that they noticed a problem with the pressure. With further checks and removal of the spark plugs it became apparent that water was getting into cylinder 3 hence the suspicion of a head gasket blown.

As in my previous posts I contacted the dealer and he basically told me where to go stating I should have taken out a warranty to which I informed him that head gaskets weren't covered by his warranty so it was irrelevent.

So that's the deal, make your judgement as you see fit.

Rgds

Darrell
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#8 (permalink) Old 09-15-2004, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarrellS@Sep 15 2004, 12:42 PM
Guys let me fill you in on a couple of things firstly I'm no mechanic but I'm no dumbf**k either.
The car is a 96 323i SE with 75K on the clock. Before I purchased it I did a check with BMW UK and it had been dealer serviced up until one year ago for which there was no service history and for whcih the dealer that had serviced it from new is sending me all the details. Checking the mileage at it's last recorded service against the MOT certificate and looking at the mileages between services etc I had no reason to believe this car to be a rogue and when I test drove it, which I did 3 times, it drove like a dream.

When I negotiated the price for ths car and managed to reduce it by a few hundred pounds the dealer refused to give me a warranty saying it would mean him losing on the deal to which I thought fair do's. I bought the car and then arranged for a local mechanic to come over and put new discs and pads on the front. He had a problem getting the bonnet open but when he did and he was looking for the problem with the catch he noticed that it had had a new radiator and that it appeared to be a very recent fit as it was very clean. After a few weeks it started to run lumpy so I booked it in for a service ( Inspection 2)and the 134 check that BMW do and it was whilst they were doing this that they noticed a problem with the pressure. With further checks and removal of the spark plugs it became apparent that water was getting into cylinder 3 hence the suspicion of a head gasket blown.

As in my previous posts I contacted the dealer and he basically told me where to go stating I should have taken out a warranty to which I informed him that head gaskets weren't covered by his warranty so it was irrelevent.

So that's the deal, make your judgement as you see fit.

Rgds

Darrell
ok first things first... I hate Dealers as a general rule. Hell I hate mechanics as a rule. But.. and lets be careful here, we dont want a situation like we had with the guy with the new headlights , hearing only one sidfe of the story right?

Now I am not one to kick a guy when he is down, but here is my take on this situation based only on the information provided:

The guy bought a care with a fairly complete service history. He opted not to buy a warranty, as a price consideration. He was happy with a seemingly well running car for a few weeks (per his post) then it started to run lumpy...

So while i feel aweful that this guy is looking at a big bill for repairing a head gasket, he bought a car that either showed or had not outward signs of a problem. He understood that his NEGOTIATED price did not include a warranty. He did NOT have the car checked by an independent mechanic.
The odd thing though is that he says that the warranty would not have covered a head gasket, which is kind of strange, since if it doesn't cover a major engine component like that, I dont know what it does cover.

The bottom line is that even if he had the car checked, a compression test might have indicated at the time of purchase the car was fine. The head gasket could have blown two weeks later. It just happens sometimes. Persojally I would not have bought a car that new with that low mileage on it without a warranty from a dealer becuase from his perspective, the likelyhood of having to fix anything shold have been very low and as such the projected cost should have been low from his perspective. Perhaps it is a different way of doing business in the UK.

In any event, Unless someone can convince me that the dealer knoew there was a problem, i regret to say that the buyer negotiated a deal understanding the tradeoffs based on price versus warranty, and also didn't have the car checked. Furthermore had he done everything right, the head gasket may have blown two weeks later anyway. It is not common but it does happen. It doesn't make the dealer a scumbag. (he was likely a scumbag for 50 other reasons)

sorry I can't be more sympathetic, but as a former specialty shop owner, I know the game, and I have seen giys come in to do a minor tune up with blown head gaskets or stripped spark plug ports and then try to blame me for the work. People suck sometimes, not only mechanics and dealers but the customers too.
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#9 (permalink) Old 09-15-2004, 06:04 PM
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nyc does have a point. I'm sorry to say that you may just be out of luck on this one, unless you can prove that it was a long term problem with the car, IE more than a month. BUt I don't know what the consumer laws are in the UK. I wish you the best of luck though in getting it resloved and hope it works out for you in the end.
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#10 (permalink) Old 09-16-2004, 07:07 AM
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#11 (permalink) Old 09-16-2004, 11:04 AM
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Firstly Good luck in getting the garage to pay but I must say that I bought my 328i P reg BMW off them in July this year and apart from a thermostat fault which caused an overheat I have had no problems with my car. I only have very little service history from a specialist showing what has been done in the last two years but my friend whos a mechanic cant fault the car. I do know that at some point my car has had some respray work done to it and possibly some other parts replaced but the work had been completed faultlessly. All I did was change the thermostat and as a precaution changed the water pump and I've already covered 4000 miles!

I also didn't take the warranty as I wanted a new MOT put on the car and a new alloy wheel and tyre (had been kerbed) but it was a risk I was willing to take.

They even phoned me up after I bought the car to say they had sourced me a boot carpet as when i bought it, that had paint all over it and wasnt in the car and didnt charge me!

But hey, everyone has a different experience with a dealer.
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#12 (permalink) Old 09-16-2004, 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by DarrellS@Sep 16 2004, 06:47 AM
Guys I fully appreciate where you are coming from and I would like you to understand that I also am realistic in my thoughts that this car could have just failed but it is not only the fact that the dealer was so abusive and demeaning in his approach to me but that he is not prepared to even investigate this issue further.
I now have the details fo the previous owner and a call to him will hopefully shed some light on whether or not it had suffered previous problems. The fact the radiator has been replaced, not as part of any visit to a BMW dealer or recall, suggests that it has at some time had a problem with the cooling system. As this could only have happened in the last year my gut feeling is that the car could have been overheated at sometime and the damage was already done.

In the UK we are covered by the Sale of Goods Act 1979 which states : If you bought a car on or after the 31 March 2003 you can ask the seller to replace or repair it free of charge if it is faulty. If you do this within 6 months of receiving the car and it is reasonable to expect it to have lasted for the period of time you have had it, it will be assumed that the problem existed when you bought the car unless the seller can show otherwise. However you can still ask for a replacement or repair for up to 6 years from the date of purchase if it is reasonable to have expected it to last that long.

Now I think for 3000($5500) I would expect the car to work reliably for more than 30 days don't you?

Rgds

Darrell
First things first D. A replacement radiator in a 3 series is like a a timing belt change in a japanese car... every 5 years or 60K miles. (i am only half kidding) They use poor quality plastic radiators that seem to get brittle and crack and develop leaks with alarming frequency. So in and of itself, the new radiator can almost be considered normal maintenance for your car. However, $5500 US for a 1996 323 with 75K is I beleive kinda of on the low side from a dealer. Once again I am only going by US pricing but I think if you were here in the states that car would be going for about 8 thousand if not more, based on milage and condition as you described. Maybe the car was a dog for that price. Maybe you should have thought something was up if a dealer is selling thousands below retail (if in fact that is the case in the UK).

On the next point, your consumer laws are clearly stronger than ours here in the US. You shold be able to make a strong case that no amount driver stupidity could have caused the head gasket to blow from driving. Over revving would have bent valves and caused other damage. so from this perspective hopefully you will have some recourse. Can I ask a more personal question? How old are you? While I am not saying that it should matter, I am saying that unfortunately if you are young it may account for ytour shabby treatment by this dealer. if you are say 18-22 or so, or look really young. maybe bringing a mature looking, professianlly attired individual with you and talking to the owner or the manager may yield different results.

All of this aside, I feel your pain, and if you do need to go to court or anything like that, and need to arm yourself with information or research or something of that nature, let me know if i can help. This board, as a public forum, is a valuable place to get "normal everyday man " testimonials and information which may support your contentions in a trial or arbitration.
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#13 (permalink) Old 10-06-2004, 06:49 PM
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keep us updated but personally i think unless you can prove that the guy knowingly sold u a faulty car without telling u the fault you dont have a case.

Even then im not sure u have a case. Look at auctions for e.g. they sell cars with warranty of sold as seen all the time and most of them have problems. No one sues them!
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#14 (permalink) Old 10-06-2004, 07:34 PM
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infact u might have a case. check this out:

http://www.oft.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/ED7D121...3E/0/oft196.pdf
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