Proper Shifting Technique - BMW Forum - BimmerWerkz.com
3-Series (E36) Chat relating to the BMW 3-Series from 1992-1999. Autodoodad Specific models include: BMW 316i, BMW 318i, BMW 318iS/ti, BMW 320, BMW 323, BMW 320, BMW 324, BMW 325, BMW 328.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
#1 (permalink) Old 11-03-2004, 12:51 PM
4th Gear Member
 
93 325i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 921
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
93 325i is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to 93 325i
(Thread Starter)
I was wondering if when your stopped at a red light should you not have your foot on the clutch and have it in neutral? Can you keep the clutch pedal down with no ill effects? Are you supposed to down shift through the gears when slowing down?

I basically taught myself how to drive manual and was never told the proper technique. Say im cruising in 3rd and see red light comin up I usually put it in neutral and just brake. Just asking for a little advice, thanks in advance..

Complete mod list and pics:

My 1993 325i
93 325i is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 (permalink) Old 11-03-2004, 01:40 PM
You Can Has A Custom Title!!
 
Deloriant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 2,155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Deloriant is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to Deloriant
Some of the things I am going to say are opinionated....so don't tear me a new one off the bat...

Sitting at a red light, you should NOT leave your clutch in. You should stay in neutral and leave the clutch out. I know that having the clutch in completely, and being in neutral, are two very different things mechanically. How bad is it to leave the clutch in? I don't know, but I'd rather just not do it.

Downshifting while slowing down...well it's really a matter of choice....which would you rather put wearing and tear on, your transmission and gears, or your brakes? Personally I'd choose brakes...much less expensive to replace.

Don't immediatly put your car in neutral (if for example, you see an oncoming red). That just stresses your brakes more becuse you'll need to rely on them soley for slowing down. If you stay in gear, the gearing will naturally slow your car down, at no extra wear to the tranny. When I am heading up to a red, I stay in gear till I hit about 1k rpm, then I pop it out. It's less wear on your brakes with no extra wear on your tranny.

<img src='http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o17/M4yorThis/119575444991686.jpg'>
Deloriant is offline  
#3 (permalink) Old 11-03-2004, 01:43 PM
1st Gear Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
_1634_ is an unknown quantity at this point
When i am slowing down, i usually down shift from 5-4-3-2 then neutral and break.

When i need to stop very quickly it is usually from 4-2. Some people suggest at a stoplight you should be in first with your foot on the clutch; this is because if you are rear-ended, you probably wont be pushed into traffic (or at least be pushed as far of course).

Usually, I am just sitting in neutral at a stop light because i dont want to wear my clutch out prematurely.

<span style='font-family:Arial'>1994 BMW 325is // White // 5 Speed

Slotted Rotors // Hawk HPS Pads <span style='color:blue'>//</span><span style='color:red'>/</span>Motorsport Shifter // De-Baffled Airbox</span>
_1634_ is offline  
#4 (permalink) Old 11-03-2004, 01:44 PM
Neutral Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Naperville, IL, USA
Posts: 86
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
uiuc240 is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to uiuc240 Send a message via MSN to uiuc240
If stopped for a long time, you should leave it in neutral. Holding the pedal down places the load on the throw-out bearing, causing it to possibly fail prematurely. Now, that doesn't mean that you can't hold it there for a light, but you shouldn't just sit there with your foot on the pedal for 2, 3, 5, 10 minutes at a time.

Downshifting during slowing down is mainly only done when you need to accelerate after the turn...this makes sure you're in the right gear. But downshifting just to slow down the car really just puts undue stress on the driveline. You can do it sometimes if you want to practice rev matching, but you should avoid doing it all the time.

As for your example, if you're in 3rd and you see a light and you know you're going to have to STOP, just push in the clutch, and stop. If you know you're going to start going again, but you think you might need 2nd gear, push the clutch in, slow down with the brakes while putting it in 2nd, then as the speed starts to pick up, blip the throttle to rev match, and then let the clutch out and be on your way. Make sense?

Eric

<img src='http://home.comcast.net/~eric_d_johnson/sig_pic.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
uiuc240 is offline  
#5 (permalink) Old 11-03-2004, 01:47 PM
1st Gear Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
_1634_ is an unknown quantity at this point
Secondly, on downshifting, in my experience the people who think downshifting is alright are auto mechanics; and the people who usually think downshifting is bad are usually just common drivers of their car.

Ive never heard conclusive evidence either way....

<span style='font-family:Arial'>1994 BMW 325is // White // 5 Speed

Slotted Rotors // Hawk HPS Pads <span style='color:blue'>//</span><span style='color:red'>/</span>Motorsport Shifter // De-Baffled Airbox</span>
_1634_ is offline  
#6 (permalink) Old 11-03-2004, 02:10 PM
4th Gear Member
 
93 325i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 921
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
93 325i is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to 93 325i
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally posted by uiuc240@Nov 3 2004, 02:44 PM
As for your example, if you're in 3rd and you see a light and you know you're going to have to STOP, just push in the clutch, and stop. If you know you're going to start going again, but you think you might need 2nd gear, push the clutch in, slow down with the brakes while putting it in 2nd, then as the speed starts to pick up, blip the throttle to rev match, and then let the clutch out and be on your way. Make sense?

Eric
[snapback]223753[/snapback]
Yea I get what your saying..This question cropped up because I was given a tip that when stopping at a light, if you press the clutch pedal down for say 3-5 secs before engaging 1 st gear, it will eliminate the thud sound.. BTW which i tested out ealier today and it has worked everytime w/o thudding!! And it was you who gave me the tip!! much thanx for your supreme knowledge! It got me thinking that maybe the way im shifting maybe improper and causing more harm..

Complete mod list and pics:

My 1993 325i
93 325i is offline  
#7 (permalink) Old 11-03-2004, 02:39 PM
You Can Has A Custom Title!!
 
RedlinedRU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Radford, Virginia
Posts: 2,335
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
RedlinedRU is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to RedlinedRU
i agree with deloriant and here are some tips from me also

never downshift into first gear unless you are stopped or almost stopped
don't even put it in first gear even with the clutch in until you are stopped, this is hard on your syncronizers.

rev matching is a great technique to learn also, when you press the clutch to downshift, boost the rpms up to about 1000 higher than they were before you pressed in the clutch for each consecutive gear.

example cruising in 3rd, at around 2500rpm, say you want to gun it up to speed real quick, press the clutch and simultaneously get the rpms up to about 3500 before letting it out again. this creates smooth powerful shifts that are not hard on your tranny and syncs.

anyways thats my 2 cents


<span style='color:green'>
AMG can't build an NA engine that can compete with M engines, so they stick in a supercharger and say their cars are faster. BMW could simply do the same, but they don't out of principle.</span>
RedlinedRU is offline  
#8 (permalink) Old 11-03-2004, 02:51 PM
4th Gear Member
 
93 325i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 921
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
93 325i is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to 93 325i
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally posted by RedlinedRU@Nov 3 2004, 03:39 PM
example cruising in 3rd, at around 2500rpm, say you want to gun it up to speed real quick, press the clutch and simultaneously get the rpms up to about 3500 before letting it out again. this creates smooth powerful shifts that are not hard on your tranny and syncs.

anyways thats my 2 cents
[snapback]223791[/snapback]
That sounds like it would put alot of stress on the clutch..will definitely try it out tho..

Complete mod list and pics:

My 1993 325i
93 325i is offline  
#9 (permalink) Old 11-03-2004, 03:14 PM
2nd Gear Member
 
Rookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Friday Harbor, WA
Posts: 471
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rookie is an unknown quantity at this point
Actually Rev Matching if done correctly is the best thing in the world to do. Wether up shifting or down shifting. When you rev match you are putting the engine and the gear at exactly the same speed so your clutch doesn't have to slip to get the rpms to match. This technique is used when you don't have a clutch or don't want to use one, ie dump trucks, and cars with shitty clutches.

Try it one of these days. You could actually speed shift without the clutch but the members on the board may you if you do it. Nothing worse than a bmw grinding gears! Rev matching will decrease your shift times and make you seem like a pro when you are cruisin with the ladies.

Hookers need love too!
What we do in life echoes an eternity
<img src='http://vfs.com/~3d43patrick/rookiesig2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Rookie is offline  
#10 (permalink) Old 11-03-2004, 03:29 PM
4th Gear Member
 
93 325i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 921
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
93 325i is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to 93 325i
(Thread Starter)
so if you have the clutch pedal pressed down and you simutaneously press the gas to rev match its fine for the clutch? I figured that when ever your on the clutch not to press the gas too much as it would wear the clutch sooner...hmm interesting, im glad I brought this up.. so rev matching is the same as "power shifting"?

Complete mod list and pics:

My 1993 325i
93 325i is offline  
#11 (permalink) Old 11-03-2004, 03:30 PM
2nd Gear Member
 
docrobot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 458
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
docrobot is an unknown quantity at this point
Any force directed through the clutch from engine to wheels or back is wear and tear on the clutch. This can occur whether you are accelerating (engine power to wheels) or decelerating (wheel rotational inertial energy to engine).

Ummm, a few things boys...

1) If you slow down faster when in gear then you would just by air and tire friction when coasting down, the extra energy slowing you down is transmitted through the clutch! Your engine is resisting the rpms that are higher than the amount of fuel you are giving it would rev. This difference will wear out your clutch faster than shifting it into neutral and coasting / breaking; trust me.

2) Your clutch and tranny shouldn't thud. That sounds bad, and expensive to fix...

3) Don't kid yourself, taking the clutch in to rev up 1,000 rpm as suggested, before re-engaging the clutch to accelerate quicker WILL wear out your clutch faster! This is at least as bad as reving 1,000 rpm over idle then releasing the clutch when driving away from a stopped position! Since you have more torque higher in the rpm range, this could easily be more wear and tear...


On a slightly different note, does anyone accelerate quickly through first and second gear to 45 - 60 mph, then shift from second to fourth when at speed? I do...
docrobot is offline  
#12 (permalink) Old 11-03-2004, 07:06 PM
n00b
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
sonny325i is an unknown quantity at this point
if you have SMG...do you lift have to lift up your foot before or after you shift gears?
sonny325i is offline  
#13 (permalink) Old 11-03-2004, 09:20 PM
Neutral Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Naperville, IL, USA
Posts: 86
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
uiuc240 is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to uiuc240 Send a message via MSN to uiuc240
There's a lot of MISinformation on this board.

1. Rev matching is NOT the same as power shifting. Power shifting is when you keep your foot to the floor while you jab the clutch and grab the next gear. It makes your engine rev high very quickly (usually bouncing off the rev limiter), but you grab the next gear with basically no loss in speed. It's extremely hard on the tranny. Some people do this without the clutch which is obviously even worse.

2. You should remain in gear whenever you think you might need power again quickly, and also whenever you are going down an incline. If you take the engine out of gear you're losing any sort of mechanical advantage that the engine's compression provides for you.

3. If the clutch is engaged, there is NO WEAR OCCURRING. The only time wear occurs on a clutch is when you engage or disengage it from a spinning flywheel (or if you have TONS of power and it causes the clutch to slip). Otherwise, it's just creating a physical connection between parts of your drivetrain (what it's designed to do).

4. The best thing to do is watch some driving videos where you can see people's feet. This might be hard to find, but they're out there...especially rally driving and drifting. This will show you the best ways to rev match for downshifts. RedlinedRU did a good job of describing the rev match technique, but he failed to mentioned that you should make a gear change in that time as well. It goes like this:

Cruising in 3rd...you see a nice corner...
Let off throttle to initiate shift in weight to front tires
Touch brake with left side of right foot while pushing in clutch
Tap throttle pedal with right side of right foot while shifting to 2nd
Release clutch while applying pressure to throttle
Exit turn at blazing speed
Smile

There are lots of things happening in that split second of time, but if you get it right, it's totally awesome. Try it on straights at first and then see if you can do it with a turn. It should be smooth like buttah.

P.S. I'm glad the "wait a few seconds before engaging 1st at a light" trick worked for you. It's been working great for me for over a month now.

Eric

<img src='http://home.comcast.net/~eric_d_johnson/sig_pic.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
uiuc240 is offline  
#14 (permalink) Old 11-03-2004, 09:22 PM
Threadkiller
 
bitcore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: High Point, NC
Posts: 2,907
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
bitcore will become famous soon enough bitcore will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally posted by docrobot@Nov 3 2004, 05:30 PM
1) If you slow down faster when in gear then you would just by air and tire friction when coasting down, the extra energy slowing you down is transmitted through the clutch! Your engine is resisting the rpms that are higher than the amount of fuel you are giving it would rev. This difference will wear out your clutch faster than shifting it into neutral and coasting / breaking; trust me.*
[snapback]223826[/snapback]
Unless the clutch is slipping, it will not wear out by simple engine breaking. The engine takes that wear and tear, and it takes it anytime it's on anyways.
Shifting and letting the clutch slip will wear it out. Rev matching is good, you want to be very proficient at doing rev matching to where you practically wouldn't need a clutch other than to start moving from rest.

EDIT: uiuc240 pritty much covered my post right as I was posting. Pfft lol.

Oh, Rev matching is also known as heel & toe.


bitcore is offline  
#15 (permalink) Old 11-03-2004, 09:28 PM
Neutral Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Naperville, IL, USA
Posts: 86
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
uiuc240 is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to uiuc240 Send a message via MSN to uiuc240
Quote:
Originally posted by bitcore@Nov 3 2004, 09:22 PM
EDIT: uiuc240 pritty much covered my post right as I was posting. Pfft lol.

Oh, Rev matching is also known as heel & toe.
[snapback]224012[/snapback]
Thanks!

And you're right about the "Heel 'n Toe" nomeclature. I didn't want to throw something new in there and confuse people.

Oh, and with SMG, you don't have to lift...just gas 'n go. The computer does everything for you. Lifting smooths things out though, from what I hear.

Eric

<img src='http://home.comcast.net/~eric_d_johnson/sig_pic.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
uiuc240 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  BMW Forum - BimmerWerkz.com > BMW Model Specific Forums > 3-Series (E36)


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Proper Washing Methods exceldetail Wash & Detail 16 02-05-2005 09:12 AM
Problems Shifting Into 3rd Gear 1993_325i_5 speed 3-Series (E36) 9 01-25-2005 08:01 AM
Difficulty shifting 2000 328i seyyoung 3-Series (E46, E90) 10 11-22-2004 01:13 PM
Loose Shifting CiscoKid 3-Series (E36) 9 04-18-2004 07:23 PM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome