Problems with M3 clutch after install - BMW Forum - BimmerWerkz.com
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#1 (permalink) Old 05-30-2004, 01:01 PM
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I recently had an M3 clutch kit installed on my 318.

Part were as follows..

- '95 M3 dual mass flywheel
- '98 M3 pressure plate
- '98 clutch disc
- '94 Eurospec M3 slave cylinder
- M3 pilot and release bearings

Anyways, I've been having a few problems. First of all, a friend of mine mentioned that the M3 flywheel is slightly lighter than my 318's flywheel, both were dualmass. Here's the problem, when I depressed the clutch and rev up my engine, the RPM would drop quicker than before and then drop below the idle level and almost stall (possibly normal for a lighter flywheel). When I rev the engine up while the clutch is in neutral and enguaged the idle would not bounce or the engine would not stall, only when the clutch is depressed this would happen. I've stalled the engine while making a u-turn with the clutch fully depressed, it can't seem to hold the idle properly. I know this is normal on a super lightweight flywheel, but for an M3 flywheel this shouldn't happen correct?

2nd problem, at idle when the clutch is depressed only sometimes I would hear a ticking sound. If I revved the engine the ticker sound would get faster. When the clutch is enguaged the ticking would go away. It only seems to happen once in a while actually, but it's annoying. People have said the flywheel could be comming in contact with something (although highly doubtful). Another person suggested that it could be the pilot bearing breaking in, possible?

3rd problem, the clutch is stiff as hell! I'm not too concered about this though, it just makes it feel like I'm driving an Diablo It just requires more muscle to change gear. Here's what does piss me off. A lot of the time I end up misshifting because the gear lever is really stiff too. When I change gears the shifter is a lot notchier and much harder to push into gear than before. I'm wondering if having the clutch changed to an M3 clutch would have affected this? If not, should I check the tranny fluid level or have it topped off?

Overall aside from all those little problems, I'm very happy with the conversion. The clutch just grips, no slipping and it take a hell of a lot of abuse. I was driving hard last night and I was amazed that I actually managed to chrip my 17" M3 wheels w/ 225 tires in 3rd gear! Wow, I couldn't do that before. It just throws you back in your seat each time you shift, it's just great The car even bogs a bit when I shift too low in the RPM band. It's good for 450+HP. I actually overheated everything on my car last night, I'm having too much fun. When I pulled up to a resturant to cool the tires, brakes and clutch down, I could see everyone holding their noses and saying.. ewww that stinks so bad.. hahaha.

Anyways, any help is much apprecaited. Thanks!

Bryan

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#2 (permalink) Old 05-30-2004, 02:17 PM
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Nice modification!

The problem with the engine stall is the following; 6-cylinder engines don't need a heavy flywheel because of the more mass in the pistons etc. (in according to 4-cylinder). That's the point and there is no other way for a better idle then install a heavier one. A higher idle rpm is also a solution, but I don't know how to do that.

The 'ticking noise'; comes that sound at an interval of 2-3 seconds (in idle)? The same thing I have, but it won't bother me....... Than the shifting problem; Are you sure the M3 shifter is making the same outcomes? I guess you didn't a M3 gearbox swap..........

I can imagine the fun you have, no more slip in the clutch, but on the road with the wheels Keep us updated when you know more about these issues!

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#3 (permalink) Old 05-30-2004, 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by dutchbmw@May 30 2004, 02:57 PM
Nice modification!

The problem with the engine stall is the following; 6-cylinder engines don't need a heavy flywheel because of the more mass in the pistons etc. (in according to 4-cylinder). That's the point and there is no other way for a better idle then install a heavier one. A higher idle rpm is also a solution, but I don't know how to do that.

The 'ticking noise'; comes that sound at an interval of 2-3 seconds (in idle)? The same thing I have, but it won't bother me....... Than the shifting problem; Are you sure the M3 shifter is making the same outcomes? I guess you didn't a M3 gearbox swap..........

I can imagine the fun you have, no more slip in the clutch, but on the road with the wheels Keep us updated when you know more about these issues!

Pieter, known as dutchbmw
Thanks Pieter,

I didn't swap the trannys. I used my stock 318 gearbox. Do you think that would be the problem with the tight shifting? There is no adjustment for the tension of the clutch pedal is there? Like a tension spring? I'm also using the stock 318 clutch release fork.

Anyways, thanks for the help. After driving around with this clutch, I suddenly feel the craving for more power The old slippery clutch just made it seem like even my stock motor was outpowering the clutch, now that my clutch can take 450HP+, I could use a little more power.

Bry

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#4 (permalink) Old 05-30-2004, 11:27 PM
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The idle issue is the like dutch said from the lack of rotational mass.

There should be a screw on the throttle linkage on the throttle body to adjuct the rpms.

How much did all this run you? My clutch is starting to slip a little, it'll last me till winter and possibly till middle of next summe. I don't have cash for it right now as I'm doing the prevenative maintenance to the car.

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#5 (permalink) Old 05-30-2004, 11:31 PM
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Above explaination is good enough.

I will put it in simple terms.

Light weight flywheel dosen't fly with Low torque car. M3 Flywheel in a low torque 4 banger isn't go to help you much.
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#6 (permalink) Old 05-30-2004, 11:47 PM
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Originally posted by roguesniper1@May 31 2004, 12:11 AM
Above explaination is good enough.

I will put it in simple terms.

Light weight flywheel dosen't fly with Low torque car. M3 Flywheel in a low torque 4 banger isn't go to help you much.
Dude.. what are you talking about? The clutch works great, I just have idling issues. It actually DOES help a lot. I want the grip of the M3 clutch disc and the high heat tolerance of the M3 pressure plate. It's not like I wanted the M3 flywheel because it was lighter, I needed the flywheel inorder to use the other components. The car does accelerate faster because of the lighter flywheel, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Your "simple" terms just complicated things more :wink Because it didn't make any sense.

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#7 (permalink) Old 05-31-2004, 01:51 AM
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hmm,

Well, no offense taken, I am not going to argue and start 3 pages long thread. But, In my experience, lighter flywheel on a low torque cars, drop the revs when up shifting. So, it is not really recommended. It is not fun, when you up shift to 3rd and your car bogs down to 500 RPM.
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#8 (permalink) Old 05-31-2004, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by roguesniper1@May 31 2004, 02:31 AM
hmm,

Well, no offense taken, I am not going to argue and start 3 pages long thread. But, In my experience, lighter flywheel on a low torque cars, drop the revs when up shifting. So, it is not really recommended. It is not fun, when you up shift to 3rd and your car bogs down to 500 RPM.
I think you're over exaggerating a bit. The M3 flywheel is only a few lbs lighter than the M42's stock flywheel. It's not like it's 10-12lbs lighter. If anything, because the clutch grips so well, the RPM's can be maintained better and the power is put down much sooner since there's no slipping. The car bogs because of the sheer grip of the clutch disc, not because the rpm's fall too quickly. When I say "bog", I don't mean the car is about to stall. I mean the car jerks a bit. Its actually very normal. I've driven an M3 and Porsche 911 it does this at times as well, quite difficult to make a perfectly smooth shift on cars with such grippy clutches unless your RPM's are really up there. Unless you granny shift, I don't see how installing this clutch kit would make your car slower.

Even installing a super lightweight flywheel would benefit a 318. The only disadvantage I would see to installing an 8-10lbs flywheel on a 318 is at highway speeds. You would need the extra weight and rotational mass to keep the acceleration going. Going uphill will also kill much of your power. I've never heard of anyone having a slower car because of a lighter flywheel. It would benefit even a Honda Civic DX w/ 89HP. If anything, slower cars would greatly benefit more from lighter flywheels. It's more difficult to maintain speed without using full throttle. However, the whole point of a lighter flywheel is not only acceleration, but deceleration as well.

I'm going to shoot a video/sound clip just to show you guys what I mean. In no way is my car slower after this modification. It actually pulls much much harder.

Bry

<u>1994 M-Technic M42 Saloon - Trillium Chapter - 5130</u>
Stock - 2866lbs Current - 2670lbs
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#9 (permalink) Old 05-31-2004, 10:15 AM
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Hey,

I don't know anything about the flywheel problem but I do know about the "ticking" noise. It is infact your pilot bearing! I have the exact same problem and am getting it fixed this week. If the noise is still there, it is not "breaking in" it needs to be replaced. I had a m3 clutch with a lightweight flywheel added to my 318i when I did the engine conversion a few months back and this "ticking" noise was there since. I took it back to the people who did the swap for me and was told that it is "breaking in". Now it has been three months after the swap and still the noise is there, so they asked for me to bring it back and they will fix the issue because they think they pilot bearing is broken!?
I'm not an expert but I don't think that since you have a 4 banger has anything to do with the clutch problem your having....

<img src='http://img43.exs.cx/img43/275/Resize.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Body: 318i 4 door
Mods: M50 engine, Jim C chip, light-weight flywheel, dual cat-back custom exhaust, 3:15 lsd, euro headlights w/angel eyes, 5300K HID, smoked corner lights, FK Motorsports foglights (crystal clear), ABS plastic upper eyebrow, clear side markers, M3 powered side mirrors w/LED, blacked out grill, M3 lighted shift knob, 17&quot; ROH Furry wheels w/Kumho tires, Brembo cross drilled rotors and Hawk performance brake pads all around, PSS9 Bilstein and H&amp;R coil over kit, front strut bar and Alpine alarm.
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#10 (permalink) Old 05-31-2004, 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by ChahalzBMR@May 31 2004, 10:55 AM
Hey,

I don't know anything about the flywheel problem but I do know about the "ticking" noise. It is infact your pilot bearing! I have the exact same problem and am getting it fixed this week. If the noise is still there, it is not "breaking in" it needs to be replaced. I had a m3 clutch with a lightweight flywheel added to my 318i when I did the engine conversion a few months back and this "ticking" noise was there since. I took it back to the people who did the swap for me and was told that it is "breaking in". Now it has been three months after the swap and still the noise is there, so they asked for me to bring it back and they will fix the issue because they think they pilot bearing is broken!?
I'm not an expert but I don't think that since you have a 4 banger has anything to do with the clutch problem your having....
Hey thanks for the input. Did you get your car back from the shop after you brought it in? I'm interested to know whether or not the pilot bearing is really damaged. It wierd because I had a brand new one installed. So it's highly doubtful?

Oh, and thanks for the rad, it's working great!

Bry

<u>1994 M-Technic M42 Saloon - Trillium Chapter - 5130</u>
Stock - 2866lbs Current - 2670lbs
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#11 (permalink) Old 05-31-2004, 10:28 AM
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No problem! I am taking it in this week so I will find for sure. Will keep you posted. As for you getting a new pilot bearing put in, so did I!!!! They charged me for a new one and gave me ALL the old parts. Even though they put in a new bearing I still had the clicking noise.

<img src='http://img43.exs.cx/img43/275/Resize.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Body: 318i 4 door
Mods: M50 engine, Jim C chip, light-weight flywheel, dual cat-back custom exhaust, 3:15 lsd, euro headlights w/angel eyes, 5300K HID, smoked corner lights, FK Motorsports foglights (crystal clear), ABS plastic upper eyebrow, clear side markers, M3 powered side mirrors w/LED, blacked out grill, M3 lighted shift knob, 17&quot; ROH Furry wheels w/Kumho tires, Brembo cross drilled rotors and Hawk performance brake pads all around, PSS9 Bilstein and H&amp;R coil over kit, front strut bar and Alpine alarm.
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#12 (permalink) Old 05-31-2004, 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by ChahalzBMR@May 31 2004, 11:08 AM
No problem! I am taking it in this week so I will find for sure. Will keep you posted. As for you getting a new pilot bearing put in, so did I!!!! They charged me for a new one and gave me ALL the old parts. Even though they put in a new bearing I still had the clicking noise.
That's very odd. I'm hoping it's not a broken pilot bearing. I don't want to have to pay another $300 for labour just to have it changed. I went to Chuck's BMW, so there's little chance he'll do it under warranty.

Anyways, keep me posted, thanks!

Bry

<u>1994 M-Technic M42 Saloon - Trillium Chapter - 5130</u>
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#13 (permalink) Old 05-31-2004, 10:35 AM
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Mine is all under warranty so I don't have to pay for either the parts or labour. This is a little off topic but does anyone know where I can find a used E36 m3 style front bumper in black!??

<img src='http://img43.exs.cx/img43/275/Resize.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Body: 318i 4 door
Mods: M50 engine, Jim C chip, light-weight flywheel, dual cat-back custom exhaust, 3:15 lsd, euro headlights w/angel eyes, 5300K HID, smoked corner lights, FK Motorsports foglights (crystal clear), ABS plastic upper eyebrow, clear side markers, M3 powered side mirrors w/LED, blacked out grill, M3 lighted shift knob, 17&quot; ROH Furry wheels w/Kumho tires, Brembo cross drilled rotors and Hawk performance brake pads all around, PSS9 Bilstein and H&amp;R coil over kit, front strut bar and Alpine alarm.
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#14 (permalink) Old 06-11-2004, 09:05 AM
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Hey sorry for the delay...had to re-schedule my appointment for this fix. The car is in the shop today and will be advised of the outcome. I will keep you posted with what and how the problem was resolved.

<img src='http://img43.exs.cx/img43/275/Resize.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Body: 318i 4 door
Mods: M50 engine, Jim C chip, light-weight flywheel, dual cat-back custom exhaust, 3:15 lsd, euro headlights w/angel eyes, 5300K HID, smoked corner lights, FK Motorsports foglights (crystal clear), ABS plastic upper eyebrow, clear side markers, M3 powered side mirrors w/LED, blacked out grill, M3 lighted shift knob, 17&quot; ROH Furry wheels w/Kumho tires, Brembo cross drilled rotors and Hawk performance brake pads all around, PSS9 Bilstein and H&amp;R coil over kit, front strut bar and Alpine alarm.
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#15 (permalink) Old 06-11-2004, 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by ChahalzBMR@Jun 11 2004, 09:45 AM
Hey sorry for the delay...had to re-schedule my appointment for this fix. The car is in the shop today and will be advised of the outcome. I will keep you posted with what and how the problem was resolved.
Nice, can't wait to find out. This sound is driving me nuts.

Bry

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