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3-Series (E36) Chat relating to the BMW 3-Series from 1992-1999. Autodoodad Specific models include: BMW 316i, BMW 318i, BMW 318iS/ti, BMW 320, BMW 323, BMW 320, BMW 324, BMW 325, BMW 328.

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Old 01-26-2007, 08:05 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Need Help Please !

Hi guys, here is my problem.
1997 318I , 170 000Kms, new plugs, wires, air and fuel filter, coolant temp sensor, starter, intake gaskets. I also cleaned the injectors. What happens is, as the fall came and got cooler, the car would crank 2-3 times, then start and rough idle for about 25 seconds. As it got cooler , it would crank a little
longer and run rough a little longer. Then can minus 20 celcius. At this point the car crank for about 3 minuits but never started. I disconnected the fuel pump harness to see if there was powered while cranking, and yes there was power and I heard the pump buzz. As I was testing with the harness unplugged from the fuel pump, the car started. I beleive it was flooded and by disconnecting the pump, it allowed it to start. As for fault codes, when the car starts fine either indoors or on a warm day, P1511 is the only code. I beleive it is the air pump that feeds air to intake during cold starts. As for fault codes when it takes car forever to start, I get codes P0300,P0301,P0302,P0303,P0304. Sometimes one of the p0301-p03004 do not come on. I beleive these codes lead to misfire. Can any of you help guide me in what I should test of change first. Thank you
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Old 01-26-2007, 09:10 AM   #2 (permalink)
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By the way, I forgot to mention that once the car was out for 24 hours at -18 celcius and it started like a charm. I had changed the spark plugs for NGK to Bosch the night before. I figured the problem was fixed, but that evening, about 6 hours after the car started fine, it failed again.
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Old 01-26-2007, 09:22 AM   #3 (permalink)
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This is really beyond the scope of my knowledge. I am guessing you know for sure you have a good battery... hmmm...

Check back here soon -- somebody here will surely have more insight than me.

In spite of the sad circumstances, welcome to werkz

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Old 01-26-2007, 09:31 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Thank you for your feedback. Yes the battery is fairly new and at -20 celcius it can crank the engine about 2-3 mins in total.
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Old 01-26-2007, 02:20 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Almost seems like you have bad fuel in the tank. As it air gets colder and colder it is freezing in the fuel lines... Since you replaced the fuel filter, I have to assume that it is filtering fine. It really seems like a fuel related issue to me, especially since you have cranking power... Anyone? More help?

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Old 01-26-2007, 03:14 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I don't know about a fuel problem, every since this problem we have refueled several times at different stations. I have added fuel line antifreeze to no success, and the last time is actually started with the fuel pump harness in my hands, which leads me to beleive it was flooded. It is making me crazy !
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Old 01-27-2007, 10:54 PM   #7 (permalink)
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i have the same issue on a 94 318i with 216k miles. my fuel filter plugs wires and air filter are new. i also have a new alternator and battery. the rough starts have been my problem as well. we have had several blizzards here in colorado but today when i got out of work the car would crank but not start. any help would be great
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Old 01-29-2007, 02:43 AM   #8 (permalink)
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May be a long shot, but these were in TIS:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW TIS
13 08 090 (3096)
Long Cranking Times

Long Cranking with "wet" start
Symptoms:
Long Cranking accompanied with rough running, black exhaust smoke, a heavy fuel smell, spark plugs may be wet and engine oil might have fuel smell. Complaint may be more severe in high altitude areas as air oxygen content decreases.
Special Note for Service Advisors/Service Mangers:
Customers should be advised to depress the accelerator pedal approximately halfway before and during engine starting in mountainous areas.
Troubleshooting Hints:
- Function of evaporative system. The evaporative purge valve must be closed during engine cranking.
- Spark plugs (type, condition, proper gap).
- NTC coolant temperature sensor (nominal values).
- Poor starting and/or running combined with temperature gauge fluctuation may be a product of moisture having entered the enjector harness multiplug. See S.I. 12 05 89 (1862) concerning E30, C191 (E34 x 1563) multiplug moisture.
- Electro-mechanical function of injectors.
- Check injectors for leakage as outlined on pages 3, 4 and 5.

Long Cranking with "dry" start
Symptoms:
Long cranking engine runs normally once started and no black exhaust smoke or heavy fuel smell occurs.
Generally, the cause of the dry start complaint is insufficient available voltage(s). This type of long cranking is not caused by a leaking injector.
Troubleshooting Hints:
- Battery properly charged (minimum 12.5V).
- Ignition coil terminal connections (tight), secondary high tension ignition wires (without leakage or corrosion).
- Spark plugs (type, condition, proper gap).
- DME Fault Memory (call up, print, and investigate accordingly).
- KL30/B+ Furible Link(s) and all battery junction block connections must be in good condition without dynamic resistance.
- The negative battery cable should be checked for a tight metal to metal connection at both cable ends.
- The ground strap between the oil pan and the frame rail (engine ground) can suffer reduced electrical flow due to a loose connection or a painted contact area. The strap (if used) shoudl be removed and the contact area cleaned as required.
- Central ground connections for the DME Control Unit must make good contact at the vehicle's ground point (see appropriate ETM for locations).
- All connectors at the main and fuel pump relay multiplugs must be tight and locked into place.

Fuel Quality
Poor gasoline quality will contribute to poor starting and/or running. See S.I. 13 01 88 (1564) concerning Gasoline Fuel Quality Recommendations.
In the Spring and Fall, when gas stations switch from Winter to Summer fuel, respectively from Summer to Winter, the different Reid vapor pressures can have a significant influence on starting abilities.
This is even more complicated by the fact that depending on the geographic area and the local fuel distributor, those seasonal fuels are not available at the same time everywhere.
Note: When long cranking complaints occur for the first time, in particular during the changing of the seasons, it can be assumed with a high degree of probability that the fuel is the cause. Customers should be advised to fill the tanks of their cars with a different brand of high quality fuel.
another long shot, ICV frozen stuck? another TIS bulletin made reference to hard/no starts because ICV gets stuck (frozen?) in closed position, so throttle plate bypass air is restricted during cranking.

But the codes you referenced relate to a misfire. So all other things aside it can be an ignition problem... coil connetions, coils, cam timing sensor, ecu.
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Old 01-29-2007, 08:02 AM   #9 (permalink)
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desmoBOB, thank you very much for the write-up. What makes me crazy is that sometimes the car will start with no problems at all. In fact, once the car has warmed up, it will start every single time. As for the ICV, I beleive my 318I 1997 does not have one.
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Old 01-29-2007, 08:04 AM   #10 (permalink)
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It has an ICV.
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Old 01-29-2007, 08:22 AM   #11 (permalink)
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where ?
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Old 01-29-2007, 10:15 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Drz I found the ICV location, I will remove and clean tonight .Thank You !
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Old 01-29-2007, 10:25 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Guys I mention earlier that once the car is warm, it starts every time without problems. Well my wife just called me, the car cranked about 30 sec before rough starting this morning. She then drove abouts 3 miles , restart after 10 mins O.K. Drove 1 mile, restart after 30mins, car was hard to start and ran rough for about 30 seconds. So it seems like it is also happening when car is warm.
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Old 01-30-2007, 08:00 AM   #14 (permalink)
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i took my car to a mechanic it was a bad fuel pump. He wanted to charge me $600 to replace. Dealer would do it for $443. I just did it myself
here is the diy
Pelican Technical Article: BMW 3-Series E36 Fuel Pump Replacement

the part is $170 at the dealer you can find one online for about $130
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Old 01-30-2007, 09:30 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Djthelo, were you having the same problems as I am ?
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