Misfire, Cel - BMW Forum - BimmerWerkz.com
3-Series (E36) Chat relating to the BMW 3-Series from 1992-1999. Autodoodad Specific models include: BMW 316i, BMW 318i, BMW 318iS/ti, BMW 320, BMW 323, BMW 320, BMW 324, BMW 325, BMW 328.

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
#1 (permalink) Old 01-10-2005, 09:25 AM
pcy
Neutral Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
pcy is an unknown quantity at this point
(Thread Starter)
After the car ('97 328i) was parked in the parking lot for 12 hours
(normally it is parked in the garage) in cold temperature, when the
car was started, the whole car was shaking (similar to misfiring)
and after a minute or so, the CEL came on. The shaking continued
on, wife drove the car home like that.

I started the car in the morning, same story. Misfiring, CEL came on.
Took the car to the Autozone so that they can read the codes.
Code 1 - P0302: Cylinder 2 misfire detected
Code 2 - (forgot the #): Fuel Trim Malfunction in Bank 1.

By the time I drove to Autozone, the misfiring stopped; the car ran fine.

The autozone employee reset the check engine light.
I put in a can of Fuel Injector cleaner and filled up the tank with 93 Octane gas.

Since then, no problems observed. What happened??
I know things don't just fix by themselves; Symptoms might show up again.
I will check the Spark Plug and Ignition Coil Pack on Cylinder 2 and see
if I notice any fouling on the spark plug and cracks on the coil pack.

Have you seen a problem like this? If so, please share your thoughts.
pcy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 (permalink) Old 01-10-2005, 09:36 AM
You Can Has A Custom Title!!
 
thekid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Jackson MS
Posts: 3,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute
Checking the Ignition Coil and Spark plug willl let you know about misfire. It is not hard to do, and it sounds like you have that under control. I am a little more interested in the second code, I honestly dont know what that code means... I'll have to look it up or some one really nice can tell me what it means...

But any way, it is possible for the car to mis for a little bit and then stop. Basically if there was a minor blockage in the spark plug chamber, for instance a little bit of water or if there was some built up carbon ect, it can cause the car to mis until it clears the obstruction out. Let us know what you find.
thekid is offline  
#3 (permalink) Old 01-10-2005, 10:25 AM
pcy
Neutral Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
pcy is an unknown quantity at this point
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally posted by thekid@Jan 10 2005, 10:36 AM
Checking the Ignition Coil and Spark plug willl let you know about misfire. It is not hard to do, and it sounds like you have that under control. I am a little more interested in the second code, I honestly dont know what that code means... I'll have to look it up or some one really nice can tell me what it means...

But any way, it is possible for the car to mis for a little bit and then stop. Basically if there was a minor blockage in the spark plug chamber, for instance a little bit of water or if there was some built up carbon ect, it can cause the car to mis until it clears the obstruction out. Let us know what you find.
[snapback]268046[/snapback]
I believe the second code is related to O2 Sensor.

Your second paragraph might really be the explanation of what
really happened. When the CEL first came on, the tank had less than quarter tank of gas. I think moisture got in there. That caused misfire (along with possible gunk in the fuel system). The misfire resulted in unburnt fuel, that in turn tripped the O2 sensor (Fuel Trim in bank 1, by the way this corresponds to the Cyl 1).

That is my logical explanation.

From what I read in other posts; when you have the symptoms as I did,
pour a can of Heat (moisture remover) and a can of Fuel Injector cleaner.
That might solve the problem. So, I tried the easy things first.

Thanks for your input.
pcy is offline  
#4 (permalink) Old 01-10-2005, 10:49 AM
3rd Gear Member
 
///Matt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 555
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
///Matt is an unknown quantity at this point
The second code is not an O2 sensor fault, the code for the bank failure is either p1174 or p1175, this is probably due to a vacuum leak, usually from a manifold gasket leak.....a VERY COMMON problem when there are temperature changes....the leak stops when the gasket heats up and expands....
///Matt is offline  
#5 (permalink) Old 01-10-2005, 02:28 PM
pcy
Neutral Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
pcy is an unknown quantity at this point
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally posted by ///Matt@Jan 10 2005, 11:49 AM
The second code is not an O2 sensor fault, the code for the bank failure is either p1174 or p1175, this is probably due to a vacuum leak, usually from a manifold gasket leak.....a VERY COMMON problem when there are temperature changes....the leak stops when the gasket heats up and expands....
[snapback]268105[/snapback]
Thanks matt, for your input.
Your explanation sounds logical. The car was parked in a parking lot during night when the temperature dipped in to single digits.

Were you refering to INTAKE MANIFOLD gasket? I am thinking of ordering a new one.

Thanks again
pcy is offline  
#6 (permalink) Old 01-10-2005, 02:33 PM
3rd Gear Member
 
///Matt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 555
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
///Matt is an unknown quantity at this point
Yes, it would be the intake manifold gasket.....
///Matt is offline  
#7 (permalink) Old 01-10-2005, 04:50 PM
You Can Has A Custom Title!!
 
thekid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Jackson MS
Posts: 3,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by pcy+Jan 10 2005, 02:28 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pcy @ Jan 10 2005, 02:28 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-///Matt@Jan 10 2005, 11:49 AM
The second code is not an O2 sensor fault, the code for the bank failure is either p1174 or p1175, this is probably due to a vacuum leak, usually from a manifold gasket leak.....a VERY COMMON problem when there are temperature changes....the leak stops when the gasket heats up and expands....
[snapback]268105[/snapback]
Thanks matt, for your input.
Your explanation sounds logical. The car was parked in a parking lot during night when the temperature dipped in to single digits.

Were you refering to INTAKE MANIFOLD gasket? I am thinking of ordering a new one.

Thanks again
[snapback]268201[/snapback]
[/b][/quote]
I would go along with that. Sounds like we have it figured out.
thekid is offline  
#8 (permalink) Old 01-10-2005, 08:06 PM
pcy
Neutral Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
pcy is an unknown quantity at this point
(Thread Starter)
Matt, theKid,
You guys might just be right about the gasket leaking. Read on...

For the past several months, in the morning, when I start the car, the car would idle very roughly for about 10 to 20 seconds or so. And then after that would run perfectly. Same thing every day. I didn't take it seriously because it only did that during first 10 to 20 seconds only.

Your explanation about the gasket leaking while it is cold and once it warms up, the gasket expands... good analysis.
I am ordering the gasket tomorrow. While I take out the intake manifold, I will clean the ICV as well.

Thanks guys
pcy is offline  
#9 (permalink) Old 01-10-2005, 10:24 PM
2nd Gear Member
 
TECH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
TECH is an unknown quantity at this point
A vacuum leak COULD cause a misfire, but not absolutely. I'd suspect an ignition coil. Swap number 2 with number 1, and if the problem comes back, the fault should then read a misfire on cylinder 1-IF the coil was the problem.

The mixture fault could be a by-product of the misfire. When the engine misfires, the oxygen in the mixture isn't burned, so the oxygen sensors see that and register as being too lean.

If you have a vacuum leak, spray some brake cleaner around the intake manifold, vacuum lines, intake boot, etc, with the engine RUNNING. If a leak is present, the brake cleaner will get sucked into the engine, and the speed will raise up abruptly.
TECH is offline  
#10 (permalink) Old 01-11-2005, 11:22 AM
You Can Has A Custom Title!!
 
thekid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Jackson MS
Posts: 3,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by pcy@Jan 10 2005, 08:06 PM
Matt, theKid,
You guys might just be right about the gasket leaking. Read on...

For the past several months, in the morning, when I start the car, the car would idle very roughly for about 10 to 20 seconds or so. And then after that would run perfectly. Same thing every day. I didn't take it seriously because it only did that during first 10 to 20 seconds only.

Your explanation about the gasket leaking while it is cold and once it warms up, the gasket expands... good analysis.
I am ordering the gasket tomorrow. While I take out the intake manifold, I will clean the ICV as well.

Thanks guys
[snapback]268491[/snapback]
With the rough idling it could be a vaccum leak as TECH said, so do just as TECH said, check the coils and plugs, in the manner that TECH described, then do the vaccum leak test. That and the gasket should cover it. The rough idle would have helped with the vaccum leak diagnosis because both rough idle and missing are symptoms of a vaccum leak.
thekid is offline  
#11 (permalink) Old 01-11-2005, 12:53 PM
5th Gear Member
 
Rooz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,562
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rooz is an unknown quantity at this point
Just to let you know, if you know your car is misfiring, fix it quick, otherwise, if it ends up running rich (too rich) while it's missfiring, you'll probably end up poluting your o2 sensor...


VIEW MOD LIST & PICS
I am worth $2,010,238 on HumanForSale.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg
Umnitza now provides a mechanic to install all parts ordered right in the box! It's their new "Total customer service program" that will eliminate all the haters and keep incompetents from breaking shit and blaming the vendor! When you are all set simply call INS and they will pick him up free of charge.
Rooz is offline  
#12 (permalink) Old 01-11-2005, 01:20 PM
pcy
Neutral Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
pcy is an unknown quantity at this point
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally posted by Rooz@Jan 11 2005, 01:53 PM
Just to let you know, if you know your car is misfiring, fix it quick, otherwise, if it ends up running rich (too rich) while it's missfiring, you'll probably end up poluting your o2 sensor...
[snapback]268963[/snapback]

Rooz, I am planning on working on the car during the upcoming weekend.
- Inspect #2 spark plug and Ignition Coil pack on #2.
- Swap #2 Ignition Coil pack with #1.
This will help me in diagnosing in the future if the same problem comes up.
- Check for vacuum leaks
- Check for any hoses that came loose
- Check crankcase ventilation hose.
- Install Intake Manifold gasket (time permitting)

I agree with you, running the car rich will foul the O2 sensor, they are not cheap.

Thank you ALL for your input.
pcy is offline  
#13 (permalink) Old 01-11-2005, 03:54 PM
5th Gear Member
 
Rooz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,562
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rooz is an unknown quantity at this point
am assuming your check engine light is on, if you an ob2 scanner, use it, it will tell you exactly what spark plug is missfiring


VIEW MOD LIST & PICS
I am worth $2,010,238 on HumanForSale.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg
Umnitza now provides a mechanic to install all parts ordered right in the box! It's their new "Total customer service program" that will eliminate all the haters and keep incompetents from breaking shit and blaming the vendor! When you are all set simply call INS and they will pick him up free of charge.
Rooz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  BMW Forum - BimmerWerkz.com > BMW Model Specific Forums > 3-Series (E36)


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Erratic Idle / Misfire / Cutting out makdolby 3-Series (E36) 12 02-05-2012 07:57 AM
Cylinder 3 Misfire, Related To Air Mass Meter? jasonharlos 3-Series (E46, E90) 8 10-06-2009 10:13 AM
5 Series Engine Misfire jtroitino 5-Series (E12,E28, E34, E39, E60) 6 03-16-2006 04:19 PM
Misfire Cylinder 5 gthoman 3-Series (E46, E90) 19 02-23-2005 02:07 PM
Misfire cylinder 1 Mrcapitan 3-Series (E36) 4 04-11-2004 03:28 PM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome