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Lowering Springs (h&r Sport Springs)

8K views 17 replies 9 participants last post by  BaLAnCe17 
#1 ·
I just got my car back, along with a MEGA credit card bill, and I was just wondering if is it absolutley necesary to get shocks if I buy lowering springs???? I mostly use my car as a daily driver, to and from school. As well as meeting up with friends. I usually never have more than 1 passanger in my car, my car is not a Fkn taxi!!!

If I were to get H&R sport springs, without shocks, I would save a buncha money. And 3-4 months down the line I am going to get bilstein shocks anyway, I just dont want to max my card out again. I'm gonna have to roll my fenders too, which will cost me another 50-70 bucks.

Will I be okay for 3-5 months on sport springs, without new shocks???? wont they be stiffer thatn stock springs, which will help to not rub???? Is it absolutley neccesito???? :help If I did this, what would be the negative side effects???
 
#3 ·
Don't waste your money for installation twice, you'll also end up blowing your struts and shocks out because they are not designed for lowering springs, save up and buy them and install it all at once, I know you're excited to lower it but do it right.
Negative side effects would be blown struts/shocks, crappy ride, car will bounce over dips, I know this first hand because I installed lowering springs w/o doing the right dampers on my e36 a long time ago :banghead , never again.
 
#4 ·
Originally posted by egk2@Mar 26 2005, 09:26 AM
Don't waste your money for installation twice, you'll also end up blowing your struts and shocks out because they are not designed for lowering springs, save up and buy them and install it all at once, I know you're excited to lower it but do it right.
Negative side effects would be blown struts/shocks, crappy ride, car will bounce over dips, I know this first hand because I installed lowering springs w/o doing the right dampers on my e36 a long time ago :banghead , never again.
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#6 ·
Unless you are doing the install yourself or getting it done for free, it's pointless to pay twice to rip down the struts, just be patient and do it right the first time, this means sport shocks/struts, new rear shock mounts of your choice, depending on mileage, new upper strut mounts, etc... Good luck.
 
#7 ·
okay okay, I guess I'll wait a couple months and do the shocks and springs at the same time. I guess right now it doesnt look too bad, stock. Also, I got a guy at a local shop to match internet prices and get a good deal on install (bilstien sport shocks and H & R springs, INSTALLED for $800 + tax)
 

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#10 ·
Originally posted by chr328is@Mar 26 2005, 06:22 PM
okay okay, I guess I'll wait a couple months and do the shocks and springs at the same time. I guess right now it doesnt look too bad, stock. Also, I got a guy at a local shop to match internet prices and get a good deal on install (bilstien sport shocks and H & R springs, INSTALLED for $800 + tax)
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#11 ·
Originally posted by B3M2W5i@Mar 26 2005, 04:26 PM
how do you like your lip spoiler? whered you get it?
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Theyre 18's x 9 in back, and 18 x 8 in front. And I got my lip spoiler on ebay :nope . But it works, and will be the same style one bavauto is selling for 199.99. I should have bought the one already paint matched as I learned that I cant paint for shhhhhhhhhh.....t.
 
#12 ·
your car is looking really good man! but you are making the right choice in holding out! I know how frustrated I get when ANYTHING on my car breaks, today a brake light bulb burnt out and I went nutty. Imagine your shocks goin out, it just wouldn't be fun.
 
#13 ·
Er.....actually it is fine to run short springs with standard dampers, the only problem you might have is the damper rate will not match the spring rate......but then most people mix and match short springs and dampers anyway and hardly ever think of matching the two.
There is an awfull lot of crap talked about you shouldnt run short springs and standard dampers......well if you run your car with four up all the time you are doing exactly that! You are not going to "blow" the dampers....they are designed to operate correctly throughout the whole suspension travel range, that means from full bounce to rebound.
Standard vehicles are tested by the manufacturer with maximum load for most of the test cycle, that means at the lowest operating range of the dampers, just as if you ran lowered springs.....
The only problem as I said would be a mismatch of the rates between damper and spring, we take a lot of time matching rates so dampers will actually "damp" the spring.
Big damage will occur if you run so low you are running on bumpstops most of the time, this will transmit too much energy through the the body structure, thats when you will damage the car!

Best regards David
 
#14 ·
Originally posted by Boxbrownie@Mar 27 2005, 11:38 AM
Er.....actually it is fine to run short springs with standard dampers, the only problem you might have is the damper rate will not match the spring rate......but then most people mix and match short springs and dampers anyway and hardly ever think of matching the two.
There is an awfull lot of crap talked about you shouldnt run short springs and standard dampers......well if you run your car with four up all the time you are doing exactly that! You are not going to "blow" the dampers....they are designed to operate correctly throughout the whole suspension travel range, that means from full bounce to rebound.
Standard vehicles are tested by the manufacturer with maximum load for most of the test cycle, that means at the lowest operating range of the dampers, just as if you ran lowered springs.....
The only problem as I said would be a mismatch of the rates between damper and spring, we take a lot of time matching rates so dampers will actually "damp" the spring.
Big damage will occur if you run so low you are running on bumpstops most of the time, this will transmit too much energy through the the body structure, thats when you will damage the car!

Best regards David
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You speak from experience? Stop spreading misinformation.
 
#15 ·
Originally posted by egk2+Mar 27 2005, 06:12 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(egk2 @ Mar 27 2005, 06:12 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Boxbrownie@Mar 27 2005, 11:38 AM
Er.....actually it is fine to run short springs with standard dampers, the only problem you might have is the damper rate will not match the spring rate......but then most people mix and match short springs and dampers anyway and hardly ever think of matching the two.
There is an awfull lot of crap talked about you shouldnt run short springs and standard dampers......well if you run your car with four up all the time you are doing exactly that!  You are not going to "blow" the dampers....they are designed to operate correctly throughout the whole suspension travel range, that means from full bounce to rebound.
Standard vehicles are tested by the manufacturer with maximum load for most of the test cycle, that means at the lowest operating range of the dampers, just as if you ran lowered springs.....
The only problem as I said would be a mismatch of the rates between damper and spring, we take a lot of time matching rates so dampers will actually "damp" the spring.
Big damage will occur if you run so low you are running on bumpstops most of the time, this will transmit too much energy through the the body structure, thats when you will damage the car!

Best regards David
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You speak from experience? Stop spreading misinformation.
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Yes I do speak from experience.......I work in a motor vehicle research and development centre, and this is more than just experience of fitting lowered springs one time with standard dampers! Thats probably why you had such a shitty ride and handling experience when you tried it, the spring damper rates were completely mismatched causing your poor ride.

27 years of experience BTW

best regards David

ps. I'd like to see just what part you thought was misinformation?
 
#16 ·
Relax, original shocks do not have the damping necessary to properly control sport lowering springs. Even if they work reasonably well when first installed, the higher rate springs will cause the factory shocks to wear much faster.
Bottom line, do it right the first time, most not all the people who ask the question " can I lower my car with stock dampers " are those who are mainly concerned with aesthetics not function.
 
#17 ·
Originally posted by egk2@Mar 27 2005, 06:42 PM
Relax, original shocks do not have the damping necessary to properly control sport lowering springs. Even if they work reasonably well when first installed, the higher rate springs will cause the factory shocks to wear much faster.
Bottom line, do it right the first time, most not all the people who ask the question " can I lower my car with stock dampers " are those who are mainly concerned with aesthetics not function.
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And that is exactly what I said......the rates will not be matched.

If you happen to have shortened springs that are similiar in rate ie progressive enough to match the OEM dampers at full extension then there will be no problems as the amount of time the dampers will be at maximum compression will be neglible, although while they are at that compression there will be a mismatch of rating, therefore the handling will not be optimum (but quite frankly its unlikely you'll ever experience that on the road or at least shouldn't!).

Good quality gas pressure OEM dampers will work fine with shortened springs that have not been over rated too much, unfortunately it still seems most tuners think if its hard enough to shake your fillings out then it'll handle! Thats not the case of course, the wheel has to stay in contact with the surface all the time for optimum grip not skipping across because of no compliance in the suspension system, Colin Chapman had the right idea.....compliant and controlled with a really stiff chassis.

Yes if you really want to do the job right, go buy a complete setup but please make sure the tuner who has put it all together really does know their stuff, and not just 30% uprate for good measure! :dunno

If you lower by say 20-30mm (thats a big lowering in CoG) then OEM dampers in good condition will be great providing your new springs dont have the wire diameter of horse shoes! :blink:

I guess 20-30mm just doesnt cut it with the pimp mobil tuners though! :D it always seems they reckon as long as you can't see daylight its good! :lmao2

If your going down as far as 40-50mm or more!!!!! Not only will the dampers have to match the required much harder rated springs the bump rubbers will have to be shortened and upgraded as well, preferably with poly bumps.

Sorry for the long reply, but I just wanted to make it as clear as I could.

Best regards David
 
#18 ·
chr328is!!! what up w/ ure ride height!?!? you say those are 18, and i showed u pics of my car w/ my 18, and it is no where near as high as yours is! i dont understand why yours would be so much higher. does it look like his car is too hight to anyone else? i suggested earlier to forget the springs and shock, but i donno man. to me it seems alot higher than stock. i love your wheels lol, BBS is crazy and $$$ :) . anyways, keep us updated, and ive heard that it isnt smart to ride on stock shocks w/ sport springs either :driving

~d a v i d :p
 
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