H&R Cup Kit...Good idea or bad - BMW Forum - BimmerWerkz.com
3-Series (E36) Chat relating to the BMW 3-Series from 1992-1999. Autodoodad Specific models include: BMW 316i, BMW 318i, BMW 318iS/ti, BMW 320, BMW 323, BMW 320, BMW 324, BMW 325, BMW 328.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
#1 (permalink) Old 07-12-2004, 02:56 PM
1st Gear Member
 
EuroBeem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Jersey
Posts: 322
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
EuroBeem is an unknown quantity at this point
(Thread Starter)
I am stuck with the decision to get the H&R Cup kit or not and the thing that scares me is this......

Additionally, since cup-kits have such a low ride height, camber measurements will be negative. Negative camber causes quicker wear and camber adjusting devices will be necessary in most applications. (This was from tunermotorsport.com)

What does negative cmaber mean and kind of camber adjusting devises would i need to get?
EuroBeem is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 (permalink) Old 07-12-2004, 03:03 PM
Neutral Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Topeka, KS
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
collin is an unknown quantity at this point
here ya go...

Camber
If you were to stand directly behind or in front of one of your tires to view its vertical angle, you would be looking at its camber. Actually, camber is most often set between 0 and -2 degrees, so you'd be hard pressed to see any lean at all. Negative camber refers to a wheel that is leaning inward with its top closer to the vehicle than its bottom. Positive camber, surprise-surprise, is the opposite, and means that a wheel leans out with its top further from the vehicle than its bottom. Many of the original Volkswagen Beetles had noticeable negative camber in the rear tires which made them look like they were squatting all of the time. A slight amount of negative camber setting is desirable because as a vehicle turns the outside wheels get pushed into a more positive camber state. This results in a camber of zero, or a straight up-and-down wheel, while cornering, which provides the largest contact patch and the greatest traction for handling.


collin

<img src='http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/12/web/288000-288999/288398_40.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
collin is offline  
#3 (permalink) Old 07-12-2004, 04:22 PM
3rd Gear Member
 
RIBEMR26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 577
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
RIBEMR26 is an unknown quantity at this point
It wasn't my question...but thanks for the explanantion...I was wondering why my rear wheels look like they're turned in, and why there is no gap in the wheel well like there is in the front....it looks like the rear is lowered but the front is not. The traction thing makes sense because I have a convertible that came stock with an X-brace and a front sway bar.

<img src='http://www.bmw-forums.com/forum/uploads/post-46-1094081870.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

Clear Corners and Sidemarkers
ZKW Euro Ellipsoids w/ DDE Enhanced
Debaffled Airbox w/Green Drop-In High Performance Air Filter
RIBEMR26 is offline  
#4 (permalink) Old 07-12-2004, 04:37 PM
Neutral Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Topeka, KS
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
collin is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
What does negative cmaber mean and kind of camber adjusting devises would i need to get?
...it was part of your question.. but i think it does this because there is so much give in the springs, that the weight of the car bends them in and in essence they tilt in, but i could be wrong. my question to you is, why in the world are you lowering your car so much that you have to worry about all of this, and how much are you lowering it??

collin

<img src='http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/12/web/288000-288999/288398_40.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
collin is offline  
#5 (permalink) Old 07-12-2004, 04:47 PM
n00b
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Pelham, AL
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
calvinc is an unknown quantity at this point
the dude who said 'it wasnt my question wasnt the creator of the thread, thats what he meant :P
calvinc is offline  
#6 (permalink) Old 07-12-2004, 05:18 PM
4th Gear Member
 
BlantonG13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Florence, NJ
Posts: 812
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
BlantonG13 is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to BlantonG13
Ribemr,

I think its just the shape of the body...The rears of pretty much all e36s look real low, almost no gap from wheel to well. Its an aggressive look as e36s are made with good suspensions for handling. As for the rear wheels turned in, if you are viewing this from the rear end of the car, its just an optical illusion caused by the natural curves of the body. the car actually gets slightly narrower towards the end, but the tires stay straight and if you look from the rear, it can actually look like the back side of the rear tires stick out...it scared the hell outta me when i was changing a flat once, then I just realized it was fine...damn BMW engineering


to adjust camber, get an adjustable camber kit, it bolts onto the suspension tower or control arm allowing you to adjust the camber usually a few degrees each way.

look up "Camber Kit" on Bavauto.com or go *HERE*

1996 318i
5 Speed Manual

Alpine CDA-7895 Head Unit
12&quot; Alpine Type-R, sealed box
Pioneer 400w amp for $20 at a yard sale (to replace my fried MRV-1507)
Infinity Kappa 4&quot; 2-way speakers(rear)
Infinity Kappa 5.25&quot; component speakers(front)
Debaffled airbox, K&amp;N filter
Tracked Mud on carpets
Shampooed and cleaned carpets
BlantonG13 is offline  
#7 (permalink) Old 07-12-2004, 05:42 PM
1st Gear Member
 
EuroBeem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Jersey
Posts: 322
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
EuroBeem is an unknown quantity at this point
(Thread Starter)
thanks for the explanation about negative camber but what do your guys think i should do about the H&R Cup kit??? And if i do get it im guessing its a good thing to get the camber adjustin kit.

To much money for me....or should i go wit H&R springs and bilstein shock set up????
EuroBeem is offline  
#8 (permalink) Old 07-12-2004, 05:45 PM
4th Gear Member
 
BlantonG13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Florence, NJ
Posts: 812
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
BlantonG13 is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to BlantonG13
Thats all you need for an improvement on already great handling...I would go for the Bilstien setup as it lowers your car and provides shock/struts to handle the lowered suspension. If you were to do just the springs, I would also get new struts to go with them...BMWs already have a low profile about them, so the inch+ lower it gets will be all you need...if you were to go lower, you may as well get airbags...

1996 318i
5 Speed Manual

Alpine CDA-7895 Head Unit
12&quot; Alpine Type-R, sealed box
Pioneer 400w amp for $20 at a yard sale (to replace my fried MRV-1507)
Infinity Kappa 4&quot; 2-way speakers(rear)
Infinity Kappa 5.25&quot; component speakers(front)
Debaffled airbox, K&amp;N filter
Tracked Mud on carpets
Shampooed and cleaned carpets
BlantonG13 is offline  
#9 (permalink) Old 07-12-2004, 06:34 PM
3rd Gear Member
 
RIBEMR26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 577
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
RIBEMR26 is an unknown quantity at this point
Ok...here is my "official" apology for this non-violent hijacking, and my question pertains to this topic so I think it's cool. If I were to lower my car, it doesn't seem like the rear could be lowered any more. The rear tire actually goes up inside the wheel well an inch maybe. The front looks relatively normal with the average amount of "stock" wheel well showing. If I were to get a lowering kit...the back would look ridiculous like some kind of old Cadillac or somethin.' Whats up with this?

<img src='http://www.bmw-forums.com/forum/uploads/post-46-1094081870.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

Clear Corners and Sidemarkers
ZKW Euro Ellipsoids w/ DDE Enhanced
Debaffled Airbox w/Green Drop-In High Performance Air Filter
RIBEMR26 is offline  
#10 (permalink) Old 07-12-2004, 07:06 PM
You Can Has A Custom Title!!
 
thekid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Jackson MS
Posts: 3,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by RIBEMR26@Jul 12 2004, 06:14 PM
Ok...here is my "official" apology for this non-violent hijacking, and my question pertains to this topic so I think it's cool.* If I were to lower my car, it doesn't seem like the rear could be lowered any more.* The rear tire actually goes up inside the wheel well an inch maybe.* The front looks relatively normal with the average amount of "stock" wheel well showing.* If I were to get a lowering kit...the back would look ridiculous like some kind of old Cadillac or somethin.'* Whats up with this?
I don't know what your talking about here is my car with lowering springs and stock wheel size.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	post1.jpg
Views:	232
Size:	131.0 KB
ID:	9974  
thekid is offline  
#11 (permalink) Old 07-12-2004, 07:09 PM
You Can Has A Custom Title!!
 
thekid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Jackson MS
Posts: 3,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by EuroBeem@Jul 12 2004, 05:22 PM
thanks for the explanation about negative camber but what do your guys think i should do about the H&R Cup kit??? And if i do get it im guessing its a good thing to get the camber adjustin kit.

To much money for me....or should i go wit H&R springs and bilstein shock set up????
Rear camber will make your car handle better The increased tire wear shouldn't really be that much more. unless you do a lot of performance driving, in which case your not to worried about tire wear to begin with. The camber plates aren't worth it IMO. You have to get basically the most expensive kit you can find to be able to eassiely apply it to your car. So if you are worried about it I would stay away from the cup kit, it is designed to work with the negative camber.
thekid is offline  
#12 (permalink) Old 07-12-2004, 08:45 PM
3rd Gear Member
 
RIBEMR26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 577
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
RIBEMR26 is an unknown quantity at this point
Here is what I am talking about....it is hard to see because the pic is dark in the wheel well, but if you look hard you can see that the rear wheel sits much "lower" suspension-wise than the front....
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	BMW2.jpg
Views:	265
Size:	31.1 KB
ID:	9976  

<img src='http://www.bmw-forums.com/forum/uploads/post-46-1094081870.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

Clear Corners and Sidemarkers
ZKW Euro Ellipsoids w/ DDE Enhanced
Debaffled Airbox w/Green Drop-In High Performance Air Filter
RIBEMR26 is offline  
#13 (permalink) Old 07-12-2004, 08:53 PM
You Can Has A Custom Title!!
 
thekid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Jackson MS
Posts: 3,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute thekid has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by RIBEMR26@Jul 12 2004, 08:25 PM
Here is what I am talking about....it is hard to see because the pic is dark in the wheel well, but if you look hard you can see that the rear wheel sits much "lower" suspension-wise than the front....
maybe there is some horrible thing wrong with your suspension? Or maybe all converts look like that because of all the extra weight? As you can see from the pic of my car not all E36's look like that.
thekid is offline  
#14 (permalink) Old 07-12-2004, 08:59 PM
You Can Has A Custom Title!!
 
Kevin325i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 2,613
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Kevin325i is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to Kevin325i
The added wear will be noticeable with the negative camber. My brother has it on his 190e. Handles good with the extra camber, but he only get about half the tire contacting at a time for the rears. If you play your cards right, and have the sides swapped like every 2k or 3k miles you'll be ok for treadwear.

Kevin

Kevin (President TBEA)

&quot;WAAAAAAARRRRRIORS, come out to plaaaaay.&quot;
Kevin325i is offline  
#15 (permalink) Old 08-12-2004, 08:05 AM
n00b
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
morea328i is an unknown quantity at this point
here is my bimmer with Racing Dynamic sport springs with 30mm drop. I have about 75 lbs worth of stero equiment in my trunk as well.

Maybe you can use this for a visual reference.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	101_0192_AUT.JPG
Views:	625
Size:	95.9 KB
ID:	10972  
morea328i is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  BMW Forum - BimmerWerkz.com > BMW Model Specific Forums > 3-Series (E36)


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
H&R Cup on an E36 Convertible RJHD3 3-Series (E36) 7 10-19-2005 02:34 AM
Powerbraking?, Is It A Good Idea? BMW-ATI 3-Series (E36) 2 03-28-2005 12:13 AM
Not A Good Idea To Park Near Water In Newfoundland vitus Other Rides 7 02-22-2005 10:28 PM
17" winter tires a good idea? GnarlyCow 3-Series (E46, E90) 12 06-24-2004 10:40 PM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome