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3-Series (E36) Chat relating to the BMW 3-Series from 1992-1999. Autodoodad Specific models include: BMW 316i, BMW 318i, BMW 318iS/ti, BMW 320, BMW 323, BMW 320, BMW 324, BMW 325, BMW 328.

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Old 09-28-2008, 08:18 PM   #1 (permalink)
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gas mileage Part 2

I made a previous post about my 318i getting 23.1 mpg in the city and stated that my mech. said high octane BP gas have less build up of carbon. One return comment stated that the higher grade fuel does not help. The following article was printed in the 09/28/08 in the Chicago Tribune paper. I thought I would pass it along.
Invigorate. Sounds like one of those energy drinks,and in a way it is. Its the new ingredient BP is touting in its gasoline to clean intake valves to keep your engine humming. Though we don't know exactly what chemicals it contains (none of the additive companies would talk about there customers) we can tell you that it is a different kind of detergent designed to do a better job of cleaning, and keeping clean, the intake valves.
According to BP spokesman Scott Dean, it is a new formula from one of the nation's largest suppliers, including Chevron/Texaco,BASF and Lubrizol. It is also exclusive to BP and Amoco. It makes the concentration of detergent in all grades of the company's gas higher than the EPA minimum requirement.
For regular it is 2.4 times the EPA minimum. For midgrade it is 3 times and for premium,4 times the rate.
Why are clean valves good? When carbon builds up on the back of the valves, it can absorb some fuel before it gets to the combustion chambers,especially on a cold engine,until the carbon becomes saturated.
Clean valves allow the air/fuel mixture to enter the combustion chambers unimpeded for better engine performance and fuel economy. When the fuel mixture is burned properly, emissions also may be reduced.
It is often such additives that make some brands of gasoline more expensive than others. We are not sure about the detergent found in EL CHEAPO brand gas, but we suspect you get what you pay for.

All I can say is that I have used BP 94 on 4 consecutive fill ups and I have experienced top results.
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Old 09-28-2008, 10:37 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by tastoll View Post
I made a previous post about my 318i getting 23.1 mpg in the city and stated that my mech. said high octane BP gas have less build up of carbon. One return comment stated that the higher grade fuel does not help. The following article was printed in the 09/28/08 in the Chicago Tribune paper. I thought I would pass it along.
Invigorate. Sounds like one of those energy drinks,and in a way it is. Its the new ingredient BP is touting in its gasoline to clean intake valves to keep your engine humming. Though we don't know exactly what chemicals it contains (none of the additive companies would talk about there customers) we can tell you that it is a different kind of detergent designed to do a better job of cleaning, and keeping clean, the intake valves.
According to BP spokesman Scott Dean, it is a new formula from one of the nation's largest suppliers, including Chevron/Texaco,BASF and Lubrizol. It is also exclusive to BP and Amoco. It makes the concentration of detergent in all grades of the company's gas higher than the EPA minimum requirement.
For regular it is 2.4 times the EPA minimum. For midgrade it is 3 times and for premium,4 times the rate.
Why are clean valves good? When carbon builds up on the back of the valves, it can absorb some fuel before it gets to the combustion chambers,especially on a cold engine,until the carbon becomes saturated.
Clean valves allow the air/fuel mixture to enter the combustion chambers unimpeded for better engine performance and fuel economy. When the fuel mixture is burned properly, emissions also may be reduced.
It is often such additives that make some brands of gasoline more expensive than others. We are not sure about the detergent found in EL CHEAPO brand gas, but we suspect you get what you pay for.

All I can say is that I have used BP 94 on 4 consecutive fill ups and I have experienced top results.
Sounds good, you would not happen to be the V.P. of B.P. would you? ..... only kidding

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Old 09-28-2008, 11:17 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I made that comment and here is why.

Higher grade fuel has nothing to do with the additives in it. Many gas companies only put additives in their "premium" grade gas. The actual grade only has to do with the combustion point of the gas. The combustion point that is needed for the car is based on the timing that the car is set to, or the range of timing that the car's ecu is programed to use. For instance, if you put a dinan ECU in your car, you must run premium grade gas because it is going to increase the timing to get more HP.

I think perhaps you are misunderstanding what you have been reading. Below are some links that will help clear some stuff up. And I've inserted the article that directly talks about higher octane than required in a vehicle.

The gas is no cleaner because of it's higher octane. Fuel additives on the other hand can be very good for your car, however they do not have to only be in the premium grade gas. Those with additives are better than those without. However, this has nothing to do with the octane rating itself.

HowStuffWorks "How Gasoline Works"

some of the same info, but a little different
HowStuffWorks "What does octane mean?"

And lastly and most importantly
Know Your Car's Correct Gasoline Octane Rating

The brand name of the fuel is of no importance to your engine. But the correct octane rating is vital.

Octane has nothing to do with a gasoline's quality. The octane figure indicates a fuel's resistance to "knocking." That's the metallic pinging sound you may sometimes hear when accelerating rapidly or lugging up a hill. Knock may be accompanied by run-on, or dieseling, in which your engine continues to turn over or sputter after you've switched off the ignition. Severe knocking or run-on, over an extended period, can damage engine parts.

There's no advantage in using a higher octane than is necessary to prevent knocking. In fact, today's cars have computerized controls designed to adjust ignition timing and other engine functions to keep knocking in check, so unless you hear something abnormal, you are probably using the right octane level for your car.

Only a small percentage of vehicles require premium fuel. These automobiles are usually sport or luxury vehicles with high-performance engines, and those vehicles with turbo-charged or supercharged gasoline engines.

Regular-grade gas is usually rated at 87 octane, mid-grade at 89 octane, and premium at 91 or above. The higher the altitude above sea level, the lower the octane requirement. You'll see this reflected on the pump: at high altitudes, octane numbers are lower by one or two digits for the same grade of gas available at lower altitudes. Generally, the hotter the air temperature or the lower the humidity, the greater the octane requirement.

It's essential to consult your owner's manual to find out the proper octane level for your vehicle. (Some auto manufacturers also post the octane requirement on a sticker inside the fuel-filler door.)

Note that your owner's manual may list a particular octane level as "recommended" or "required." The "recommended" octane, usually midgrade or premium, is the one you should choose for "best" performance. The manual will state this. Your car will run fine if you choose not to follow that recommendation, and you'll be hard-pressed to notice the few horsepowers sacrificed to the lower octane. If a particular octane level is "required," however, use it.

As vehicles accumulate miles, their octane requirement can increase because of the buildup of combustion-chamber deposits. This continues until a stable level is reached, typically after about 15,000 miles. The stabilized octane requirement may be 3 to 6 numbers higher than when the car was new. Premium or midgrade fuel may be advisable to prevent knocking.

At the gas pump, a label on the pump shows the octane ratings available at that station. The higher the octane, the more you'll pay. Use the correct octane, and save.

Is there more you can do to conserve gas while you drive? Yes, there is! Check the next section for additional tips on fuel-effecient driving.

from HowStuffWorks "How to Drive Economically: Tips and Guidelines"

Last edited by thekid; 09-28-2008 at 11:22 PM.
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Old 09-29-2008, 01:55 AM   #4 (permalink)
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gas part2

All I know is that the performance and gas mileage has improved on my auto. It definitely is about the additives and not the high octane. i am not leaning towards that article or any other article but in the proof. I threw it out there for anyone that is interested.
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Old 09-29-2008, 11:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
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All I know is that the performance and gas mileage has improved on my auto. It definitely is about the additives and not the high octane. i am not leaning towards that article or any other article but in the proof. I threw it out there for anyone that is interested.
Yes gas with additives does help.

I personally never use BP gas, the only bad gas I have ever gotten was from a BP... but it was a BP in the middle rural Alabama so I don't really count that against them. I stick with texaco/shell where I live but that is just because they happen to be more conveniently located. However, I would never by choice buy from a non affiliated gas station or from one of the smaller companies. I know... way to play into the corporate greed or whatever.

And just in case there is any misunderstanding, I did not post any of the above to make you feel less intelligent or to prove myself right. Many people come through and read these posts and then take them out to other places and stay things like "higher octane gas is cleaner and less carbon build up... its true I saw it at..." and then don't ever bother to check up on these facts. And with gas prices the way that they are, most people do not need to spend the extra .40 a gallon thinking that they are getting cleaner fuel without understanding that they should be looking for additives rather than octane.
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Old 09-30-2008, 11:43 AM   #6 (permalink)
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It was just an article. If you want to buy it. Buy it. If you do not like BP do not buy it. I don't care if it is 0.40 more than mid-grade, and I do not care if you got a bad tank . If you read my articles I was not promoting BP, I said it was just an article. Do not be so sensitive and take what it is out of context.Geez,make's me leery about ever posting again
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Old 09-30-2008, 11:16 PM   #7 (permalink)
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It was just an article. If you want to buy it. Buy it. If you do not like BP do not buy it. I don't care if it is 0.40 more than mid-grade, and I do not care if you got a bad tank . If you read my articles I was not promoting BP, I said it was just an article. Do not be so sensitive and take what it is out of context.Geez,make's me leery about ever posting again
I suppose now that I wasn't posting that for you. I was posting that for the poor people that come here for advice and read your opinion about something that you clearly have no idea about and then take it as a fact because they saw it here (as I stated above). You started a second post about fuel economy to post something that seemingly you thought showed that your opinion was right and what I said was wrong. What I said is exactly what is in that article fuel additives/fuel treatments are the difference. Did you bother to read it? Do you know why there are 4x the EPA recommended amounts in their premium? Because they choose to make you buy the premium to get that. Not because of the grade which refers to the octane.

Sensitive and out of context.... and I was worried about you thinking I was jumping on you. If you can't take some one pointing out what you are saying is not accurate when you are making several attempts to pass it off as true then perhaps you shouldn't post any more. Or you can say wow, I've done some reading and I now understand about octane and how it relates to the grade of fuel. I also now know that additives make less carbon as opposed to the grade of fuel so I can make more informed statements so I do not give wrong information.

What's the big deal you ask? Saying the grade of gas is what is important is simply wrong as I have stated now several times. If it is no big deal then you could have just posted back in the original thread and said: "I read this article from BP and it does say that the fuel additives/treatment that they put 4x the EPA required amount in helps keep the valves clean, it really doesn't have anything to do with the octane! Cool!"

If you came here to learn, learn. And know that if you came here to learn then you don't know everything (just as I don't know everything, which is why I'm still here). If you came here to spout opinions then do that. But some one will be here to correct it for others. If you get your feelings hurt when someone tries to tell you something then grow up and unbunch your panties.

I'm not sure why the post quoted below got you bent out of shape to the point that you think you have to defend your misconceptions about gas. Or that when you don't read what I say, or the source that you bring that says the same thing I just said, or the sources that I bring that confirms your source and what I say, you get offended.
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For an auto you are doing amazing for city driving. Keep it up.

The "cleaner" burning higher grade fuel is not true. Just don't buy cheap gas. Buy from Shell, Texaco (also shell now) or other major gas provider that already has some fuel treatment in there.
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Old 09-30-2008, 11:34 PM   #8 (permalink)
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IMO, any big name brand gas is good and clean. I'd look for low ethanol content.
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Old 09-30-2008, 11:35 PM   #9 (permalink)
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You are one big pompous jerk! Mr. Americana out there trying to protect everyone with your wealth of knowledge. Mr. BMW web site savior leading the flock to truth and justice. What a clown you are!
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Old 09-30-2008, 11:40 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Umm,
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Old 09-30-2008, 11:50 PM   #11 (permalink)
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You are one big pompous jerk! Mr. Americana out there trying to protect everyone with your wealth of knowledge. Mr. BMW web site savior leading the flock to truth and justice. What a clown you are!

Thank you for proving my point. Does this mean I won't have the pleasure of intelligently conversing with you any more?
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Old 10-01-2008, 01:41 PM   #12 (permalink)
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It was just an article. If you want to buy it. Buy it. If you do not like BP do not buy it. I don't care if it is 0.40 more than mid-grade, and I do not care if you got a bad tank . If you read my articles I was not promoting BP, I said it was just an article. Do not be so sensitive and take what it is out of context.Geez,make's me leery about ever posting again
If it is just an article, then why are you getting all bent out of shape........the kid' was just posting his response with some interesting disputed facts.....nothing wrong with that.
So the only pompous jerk here, would be you ! A little "tasteoll" of your own medicine......

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Old 10-01-2008, 08:36 PM   #13 (permalink)
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If it is just an article, then why are you getting all bent out of shape........the kid' was just posting his response with some interesting disputed facts.....nothing wrong with that.
So the only pompous jerk here, would be you ! A little "tasteoll" of your own medicine......

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rofl... a little "tasteoll"... that's great, wish I had thought of that.

And my facts are not disputed... they are disputing.
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Old 03-22-2009, 03:29 PM   #14 (permalink)
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You are one big pompous jerk! Mr. Americana out there trying to protect everyone with your wealth of knowledge. Mr. BMW web site savior leading the flock to truth and justice. What a clown you are!
bump...lol
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Old 03-22-2009, 08:08 PM   #15 (permalink)
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my 5 series get crappy gas mileage and I always put in super, because that is what it says to do. However, I didn't buy a bmw to worry about gas mileage. I just drive it and enjoy. If i need to do errands, where there is alot of in and out, I take my 30 mpg Nissan Sentra and leave the bmw in the garage. Same goes for going to a bad part of town. I live in Las Vegas, where the driving is bad period. Too many lights. So it doesn't really matter what I do or how I drove. I drive the Bmw like a 65 yr old and the Nissan like a taxi driver.
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