Alright so quick question about these lower springs, how do they compart to the m3 springs that are already on my ride? Will I lose cornering ability? Have Bouncy ride?
These are a hell of alot cheaper than a H&R Coilover kit. I looked at the cup kit but they don't make them for my suspension setup. How do the eibachs compare?
of course course coil overs are gunna cost hell of a lot more.. because TRUE coilover kits come with the shocks too...
big red has the eibach springs.. and he says he loves them... ive heard good things about them.. and i will prolly buy them in the spring.. lowering your car with the eibach's will definately add a noticeable ride and stability compared to the m3 springs you got in your car now!
Word! Do pick up some bilsteins along with the springs. All I can tell you is that the two top springs for bmws are either H&R or Eibachs, no questions ask. Still not satify? Which I highly doubt it, then look into getting an x-brace or strut bar. But please get the springs/shocks first.
Originally posted by eskiasu@Feb 1 2005, 12:36 PM Word! Do pick up some bilsteins along with the springs. All I can tell you is that the two top springs for bmws are either H&R or Eibachs, no questions ask. Still not satify? Which I highly doubt it, then look into getting an x-brace or strut bar. But please get the springs/shocks first.
Go with H&R sport springs and Bilstein sport dampers, perfect drop, comfortable but firm ride, Bilsteins will outlast your car, I've had them for over five years...
yeah i have eibach and really like them, it messed with my camber a lot and its eating through my tires so i gotta get that fixed... other than that its pretty awesome! get the shocks too, i think i am going to upgrade to H&R cupkit soon though.
Alright so here is where the confusion comes in. H&R does not make a cupkit for the M3, only a coilover setup. I am assuming that is because the performance of the cupkit and the suspension setup of the m3 are about equal or the cupkit is a downgrade. I have the M3 suspension on my ride even though it is only a 328is(according to the dealership I have the M-package).
Bigred if you are looking at going from eibachs to a cupkit then that would mean that eibachs where not as good as the cupkit, and a cupkit would not be as good as the m3 suspension(assumption). Anyone else follow that.
Basically I am looking to drop my ride 1-2 inches and I want a stock ride or better. Not some civicy bouncy lowered ride like the hondas around town that just bought springs. However if I can get away with just eibachs and not get that bounce I will go that route. Else I will go for the H&R coilovers when I get the extra cash.
well this is my experience, i have driven my car(of course) with eibachs loweres it great rides smooth corners better than stock. ive riden in some 325s with the cupkit, rides smooth as hell, corners better than my car, and is really really easy to drift. riden in an m3 with stock suspension... great great ride quality great handling etc... ride height is taller though, i think the cupkit is a better choice than stock m3 suspension specually if you wanna lower it a lot... thats just me! it would be worth getting.
Eibach's are poor springs. They are now made in the US, and for some reason cost more than H&R springs.
Problems with Eibach springs...
1. stock spring rates with lower ride height (bouncy)
2. sags like no tomorrow! (I had -2.7 degrees of camber with my pro kits just after a year!)
3. made in USA, inconsistent spring rates. For some reason my passenger side was lower than my driver side? H&R springs fixed that problem.
4. a VERY progressive spring. This means that when you corner soft-moderately hard it will give you a very stock feeling soft mushy performance. When you start to push it hard through the corners, all of a sudden the spring rate shoots up and you get some ackward handling. The springs stiffen up so quick that you get some snappy oversteer, not good. A very unpredictable spring rate. H&R's are much much more linear.
Unless you're going for the Eibach linear ID race springs, go for the H&R's. Eibach's are more for looks more than anything else. H&R's have much more aggressive spring rates.
At one time Eibach's may have been good springs, when they were still somewhat a new company and made in Germany. However, now they are massly produced in USA and very inconsistent.
Originally posted by Autotechnica@Feb 2 2005, 06:06 PM Eibach's are poor springs. They are now made in the US, and for some reason cost more than H&R springs.
Problems with Eibach springs...
1. stock spring rates with lower ride height (bouncy)
2. sags like no tomorrow! (I had -2.7 degrees of camber with my pro kits just after a year!)
3. made in USA, inconsistent spring rates. For some reason my passenger side was lower than my driver side? H&R springs fixed that problem.
4. a VERY progressive spring. This means that when you corner soft-moderately hard it will give you a very stock feeling soft mushy performance. When you start to push it hard through the corners, all of a sudden the spring rate shoots up and you get some ackward handling. The springs stiffen up so quick that you get some snappy oversteer, not good. A very unpredictable spring rate.
Unless you're going for the Eibach linear ID race springs, go for the H&R's. Eibach's are more for looks more than anything else. H&R's have much more aggressive spring rates.
At one time Eibach's may have been good springs, when they were still somewhat a new company and made in Germany. However, now they are massly produced in USA and very inconsistent.
that is part of the reason why i am switching to the h&r cup kit, myt camber is HORRIBLE after the eibachs, if you havent noticed ive posted a few threads about it, and am getting ready to get the tms adjustable control arms now...
That is untill i can get my h&r and then i got both!
I had price quotes on an H&R coilover setup for my car and they run about 1800-1900 installed. That is a fairly large amount of cash to plop down on suspension. However I will not and can not take a performance hit to gain a visual look. I would like to run with the BMW of seattle club at track days, but I don't know how my suspension will do on a track for anything halfway serious.
Originally posted by Rookie@Feb 2 2005, 09:39 PM ...I would like to run with the BMW of seattle club at track days, but I don't know how my suspension will do on a track for anything halfway serious.
So why not go to a track day and see what the other BMWs are running? Talk with the owners and see what they run, and if they would buy the same again. Do this before you spend your hard earned cash...
As for made in the USA being worse than made elsewhere; riiiiiiiiight! BMW, and every European OEM Supplier has been selling that story for their parts since the beginning. Its not where its made, but what specs, quality, material, and construction guidelines they adhere to; where ever they are made.
The reason H&R makes different suspensions set ups (or don't offer certain ones for the M3) is because the M3 differs in fitment. The M3 has spring perches that the other e36 cars don't have, and because of that, they need a diffferent design.
Your dealer may have told you have M3 suspension, but I doubt it. To my knowledge the 328is has a sport suspension, but that's it. You may have some ///M trim (steering wheel, body kit, etc.), but it's pretty much just asthetics.
Autotechnica tracks his car, so if you want good advice for a suspension system for track days, he's a good guy to ask (or listen to).
Coilovers are considerably more expensive becuase you are replacing shocks and springs, not just springs. Keep in mind if you buy new lowering springs, you should buy new shocks. So this means your gonna buy new shocks AND springs, regardless.
So you can spend $500-800 on decent springs and shocks, or you can spend $900-1300 on a decent coilover kit. The coilovers will give you better handling, but will sacrifice ride quality in doing so. If you do plan to do a lot of public road driving, the first of the two aforementioned systems would be the way to go. IF you just want performance, go with coilovers.
Originally posted by docrobot+Feb 3 2005, 05:47 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(docrobot @ Feb 3 2005, 05:47 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Rookie@Feb 2 2005, 09:39 PM ...I would like to run with the BMW of seattle club at track days, but I don't know how my suspension will do on a track for anything halfway serious.
So why not go to a track day and see what the other BMWs are running? Talk with the owners and see what they run, and if they would buy the same again. Do this before you spend your hard earned cash...
As for made in the USA being worse than made elsewhere; riiiiiiiiight! BMW, and every European OEM Supplier has been selling that story for their parts since the beginning. Its not where its made, but what specs, quality, material, and construction guidelines they adhere to; where ever they are made.
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Would you pay more for a spring brand that use to be made in Germany but is now made in the US? No offense, but I'd buy German products over US products any day. US are known for making great quality manifolds and exhaust systems, but not suspension parts. H&R is cheaper and made in Germany. They are trusted by many on or off-road.
The reason Eibach's are made in the US is because Eibach wants to mass produce the springs for the general public. There is a huge market for them in the US. They aren't really performance springs anymore. They are pure aesthetics. I wasn't just talking out of my ass. I sell suspension parts for a living so I know what I'm going on about. My partners and I stopped selling Eibach springs about 1-2 years ago for this reason. The market has changed so Eibach is all about making sales. You have to consider the reasons why a US company would buy Eibach.
Everyone remember what happened to the great German BMW tuner company Racing Dynamics after they sold themselves to a US company? They changed their name to electro dyne and their company went downhill. They almost went bankrupt because their product's quality was so poor. The German's bought back part of the company and somehow managed to save them. A lot RD stuff is still US made, and poorly made at that. They couldn't make any sales in quantity like Eibach did because RD was a different kind of company. At one time, they represented high quality products.
RD Sport = US
Racing Dynamics = German
If you know the story of the company KW that makes those famous coilovers, you'll understand what I mean. Suspension companies only make parts to supply the demands of the market. KW came out with lots of cheap coilover kits which were not really so great. A lot of people bought them because they were cheap. We also referred to these as coilovers for ricers. After the phase was out and people wanted real performance parts again, KW manufactured too many units and eventually put themselves out of business. Imagine that, there was even a time when they sold so many units that they couldn't make them in time. So understand that suspension companies change their marketing approch for a reason, and it's usually not for the benefit of the consumer.
They're pretty much the same deal as Eibach's. My friend had them on his ti and didn't like them. I didn't even know his car was using Bav auto springs till he told me. It felt like a stock ride.
Originally posted by jllphan@Feb 3 2005, 08:17 AM Autotechnica tracks his car, so if you want good advice for a suspension system for track days, he's a good guy to ask (or listen to).
I love my eibach springs, then again I have the Full Ground Control Coilover setup, love the ride so far, and the handling is incredible on the track. If you need help with choosing a spring rate let me know :wave
Originally posted by DoTheDew@Feb 3 2005, 09:40 PM I love my eibach springs, then again I have the Full Ground Control Coilover setup, love the ride so far, and the handling is incredible on the track. If you need help with choosing a spring rate let me know :wave
GC coils pretty much sell you whatever springs you want, you can have Eibach ERS or ID Race springs. Most coilover kits include a set of linear ID race springs. Those are a completely different class on it's own. I was commenting on the quality of the Eibach pro kit and sportline springs. Nothing wrong with the Eibach ERS/ID Race springs.
Originally posted by jllphan+Feb 3 2005, 09:28 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jllphan @ Feb 3 2005, 09:28 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-jllphan@Feb 3 2005, 08:17 AM Autotechnica tracks his car, so if you want good advice for a suspension system for track days, he's a good guy to ask (or listen to).
Hey Auto, while we got your attention, what'd you know about these...{HERE}
I trust Bekkers.com, I've had good luck with them over the years, but I don't know that suspension manufacturer :dunno
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Hmmmm, there's no brand. It just says "high quality suspension" on the dampers. They "look" kind of similar to the H&R coilover kit. The description states that they are German made and TUV/ISO9001 approved. However, it's difficult to say whether or not they are any good. You really need to search around for anyone else who has had experience with the kit.
I noticed that the prices quoted by jllphan were quite a bit cheaper than what I was looking at. So a suspension setup for 500-800 would include what? Eibach type springs and say bilstein shocks?
Autotechnica if you were going to buy a new suspension package and were upgrading from stock. For 500-800 what would you put on your ride?(Mostly street with some track)and for 800-1500 what would you do?
Originally posted by Rookie@Feb 4 2005, 09:19 AM I noticed that the prices quoted by jllphan were quite a bit cheaper than what I was looking at. So a suspension setup for 500-800 would include what? Eibach type springs and say bilstein shocks?
Autotechnica if you were going to buy a new suspension package and were upgrading from stock. For 500-800 what would you put on your ride?(Mostly street with some track)and for 800-1500 what would you do?
For $500-$800 I'd get Bilstein Sport dampers and H&R sport springs.
For $800-$1500, I'd get KONI adjustable dampers with H&R race springs, a set of camber plates for the front and a set of rear adjustable control arms for the rear. That's a more advanced setup for more track use. However, if you're planning to use the car mostly for the street, I'd avoid getting ID race springs or coilovers. They are quite harsh for street driving. For the H&R Race springs, I chose the KONI dampers as they are adjustable and have the right amount of dampening for the race springs. The Bilstein's are actually under-dampered for the H&R race springs, you'll be riding on the bumpstops a lot! If you chose to go with the Bilsteins and H&R race springs, I'd get the Bilstein's revalved. The problem is, H&R race springs front spring rate is too soft for how low they are, so they bottom out a lot. The rear is fine. Anyways, you'll be happy with the 1st option for street and occasional track use. In the future, if you find you need something more aggressive you can upgrade to race springs and play with your camber settings.
Ok so with the bilstein sport dampers and H&R sport springs will there be any sort of a camber problem? I am assuming that it will lower the car an inch to an inch and a half.
Originally posted by Rookie@Feb 5 2005, 01:00 AM Ok so with the bilstein sport dampers and H&R sport springs will there be any sort of a camber problem? I am assuming that it will lower the car an inch to an inch and a half.
1.5" front 1.0" rear. You shouldn't have any camber problems. You will get a little more -ve camber front and rear, but just enough that you won't get any crazy uneven tire wear. Always get an alinment done when you lower the car.
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