Changing gears without clutch ?

[Q_BMW]

Hey guys
I was with a friend this weekend, he has a heavily modified acura integra and he would change his gears sometimes without the clutch cuz he said he could match the revs for the gears. he used the clutch to put the car in 1st and after that he upshifted all the way to 4th without the clutch. He said it is possible on any car. I have been driving stick for a while now but did not know this and was quite surprised.

Have any of you tried it or do it on the bmws ? if so can I get some tips...dont wanna break my gearbox.
thanks
Q

[El Presidente]

its possible yes....its also very bad for the tranny. its also usually a sign the shift linkages and bushings and what nots are giong bad or already shot.

[Q_BMW]

hey
his clutch and tranny are fine and everything is great in his car. As for what I understand , he said it is completely healthy to do this and he does it to uppshift quicker and claims it is not gonna damage anything significantly. He was very cool about it and was surprised that i didnt know i could do it.
Q

[007ben]

i had a friend who could do it..

the biggest problem will be learning to do it...

its just a matter of knowing your car and when/how to do it....

[wulley1]

you can do it. But how many times are you going to grind the gears trying to find the right time to shift? Probably a lot.

[Q_BMW]

hey
ya , thats why i was wondering if anyone in here did it and could give me some tips ? if i do it wrong would it just snap outof gear or could it potentially break my gear box ?
Q

[Speedy-325is]

ok, here it goes ;
this is possible on any car.

1st; get the car rolling, and begin to accelerate SLOWLY.
2nd; pay attention to RPM's
3rd; when they reach 3500rpm hook 2 fingers aroundthe outside of the shift knob
o; (knob)
u (YOU) kinda like that,

D; GENTLY, VERY GENTLY, ease the lever into neutral between 1st and 2nd(keep it there)
5; now u have to fan the throttle t get the RPM's up to 4000
6; while they begin to drop start to gently ease the shifter into 2nd keeping
light/steady pressure constsntly.
(dont puss out if u r going to do it, or u will hurt the gears, go 4 it)
it will feel like the shifter is not going for a second, then WATCH as the car hits 3500RPM's it will magicly just pop itself in gear!
7th; wipe the grin off, and drive away.
then; repeat for next gears.

remember, it is only a soft/constant pressure needed to POP the gears ino place, DO NOT TRY TO FORCE IT. if it dosn't go, u r doing something wrong & u should stop trying.
I CLAIM NO RESPONSABILITY FOR TRANNY'S ON THE GROUND or other car/bodily injuries.

the reason it works is that 3500 rpm's the teeth on gear and the clutch are at sync speed(they move at the same speed) therefore u can ease it into gear when u hit it right. no clutch required.

if u r really a bada$$(or really stupid), then u will be able to get the car rolling w/out the clutch! oh yeah, this also works at 7000rpm's! im not joking!

again: DO NOT FORCE IT, EASE, IT IN! (like a woman) Its ur car not a $2 hooker, u r not trying to break it!
not everyone will be able to do this, its a finesse thing. my dad taught me this when i was 15 and it is good to know if ur clutch ever goes out in the middle of BFE,
have fun, enjoy.
Mark

[Q_BMW]

Hey
thanks a ton speedy, will try it soon. So is 3500rpm the sync speed for all cars or jus bmws ? or is it more about finding out the true synch speed for everycar thru experience ?
Q

[bitcore]

"like a woman" "finesse thing"
Jesus christ.... I hate these co-relations with driving cars.

Commentary aside, (sorry, just CAN NOT stand those terms) what Speedy-325is said will work, but I don't recommend doing it as the transmission wasn’t designed to do this. Yes, shifting gears while moving is very possible and wont damage the transmission if you do it correctly (IE: very smoothly, no jerky car lurches) then you won't tear anything up. The key is RPM matching, and usually isn't consistent at 3500 rpm all the way up.

If your not careful or do it too much, you'll grind the dog teeth\synchros all to hell. Starting the car without the clutch turns the synchros into a full blown clutch... Bad. They weren’t designed to do this much clutching, especially under such a heavy torque load. If your gearbox's sychros have worn down or you shift it too hard, you’ll grind the shit out of the dog teeth, which is even worse and you'l hear that noise you hear when you "grind the gears" (it's the dog teeth, not the actual gears, BTW, unless you *really* screwed somthing up )

I think howstuffworks has a good article on how manual transmissions work. It's always good to know what exactly you are doing to the transmission when you shift like this.

[Kevin325i]

I've actually found it's faster to shift with the clutch. The only time when shifting without the clutch becomes practical is in racing if you left-foot brake. It also comes in hand if you lose your clutch, but the chances of that are like 1 to 1000.

Kevin

[Speedy-325is]

soooo sorry bitcore, i didnt know some guys gave their cars guys names.
my cars name is Trixxy. . .she's my B tch!

but im predicting someone wil not listen to the warnings
you and i have posted and will be asking how to fix their tranny very soon.
then we get to laugh :nana

KEVIN: u r right, its always better/faster to drive ur car how its supposed to b driven.
techniques like this, and others(like hotwiring) are for emergencies only.
(most of the time)

Mark

[jllphan]

Just to add my $.02.....

This can be done with any car, and no there is not a universal RPM. Each car's gearing differs as does the proper RPM with which to shift. Upon purchasing my current whip, I was eager to let my dad's neighbor drive it. He buys 2-3 cars a year and is very knowledgeable on how to "drive" practically anything.

We took a spin, and he never touched the clutch, not even from a dead standstill. It was pretty sweet seeing someone like that do it properly with my car.

Based on what I saw, and consequently learned, there is no procedure that can be written down for all to read and then reproduce. You just have to feel it. Much like what Speedy posted, nothing is forced, one must learn where the car wants to be shifted. I tried it a few times, and the only use I see for it is showing off....it is pretty cool though.

[Speedy-325is]

jllphn

[bitcore]

... Wish I *HAD* a manual so I could try it.... :P

soooo sorry bitcore, i didnt know some guys gave their cars guys names.
my cars name is Trixxy. . .she's my B tch!

No no it's alright, I'm just OCD about those few terms, just can't take it for some reason. I guess my dad used them when he was trying to teach me how to drive stick and he'd get angry at the slightest thing. Whateva.

[Speedy-325is]

i know what u r saying. understandable. VERY.
it is just that i learn very well when i read it if i can relate it to something
i know alot about. i guess to you its annoying kinda like for me i think its stupid when people who hate all religon use the terms "goddammit", or "jesus christ"

i am just trying to emphasize how important it is that anyone attempting this does
so VERY gently. btw, whats OCD?


(im not saying that to you, but in general, i dunno what u believe,
and it doesn't really matter)

peace out
Mark