3-Series (E21, E30)Chat relating to the BMW 3-Series from 1975-1983 and 1984-1991 line. Specific models: BMW 315, BMW 316, BMW 318, BMW 318i, BMW 320/4, BMW 320i, BMW 320/6, BMW 323i, BMW 320i. E30 Family models include: BMW 325e, BMW 325i, BMW 325is, BMW 325ix.
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my boss has an old e30 that he's looking to get rid of. i've been looking to start a project car. so if i picked up his e30, i was wondering if i could find a s52 with tranny or a s54 with tranny and put it in... is this a crazy idea??? i think it would be pretty nutz, but awesome... is it possible to do the swap in the first place??? can you help me out???
Anything's possible with enough money, but what you're talking about is an expensive motor and transmission that weren't meant to fit into that (non-M) chassis. If you've got heaps of cash that you're fighting to get rid of ($3000-5000 plus the car), and you're comfortable machining mounts and whatnot, then it sure would be a cool ride to own. But I'd sooner go looking for an E30 M3.
Even if an S52 won't fit, I'd take an E30 over a 240SX.
Originally posted by Aether@Oct 28 2004, 11:46 AM Anything's possible with enough* money, but what you're talking about is an expensive motor and transmission that weren't meant to fit into that (non-M) chassis.* If you've got heaps of cash that you're fighting to get rid of ($3000-5000 plus the car), and you're comfortable machining mounts and whatnot, then it sure would be a cool ride to own.* But I'd sooner go looking for an E30 M3.
Even if an S52 won't fit, I'd take an E30 over a 240SX.
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The S54 engine alone is $12K, then you will need a trans and clutch $2500+, engine DME is about $2K, sensors, custom mounts, chasis modification, custom drive shaft, diff rebuild to handle more power, stronger axles, upgraded brakes, upgraded suspension, bigger radiator, and tons of time. If you could even get all the proper sensors to work in the E30 with the S54 I don't see this swap being done for less than $20K not counting the car. Yeah it would be a one of a kind car but for $20K there are better things to spend it on. An OBD II S52 can be done but it is easier to do the regular OBD I S50 swap.
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you dont need more brakes if you have more power. Obviously you dont apply power and brakes at the same time. And how much extra weight are we talkng about?
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Originally posted by DeathMetal@Oct 29 2004, 06:12 PM you dont need more brakes if you have more power. Obviously you dont apply power and brakes at the same time. And how much extra weight are we talkng about?
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Not to sound rude but it sounds like you've never driven a car with tons of power and stock brakes. When you make more power you will be going faster and will need better brakes to slow you down. If you drive in traffic you won't need better brakes with more power but on a hard drive through some twisty road and you soon find out why you need better brakes when you make more power. If you didn't know all the M series cars have upgraded brakes from the factory for this reason.
Originally posted by AJ's320i+Oct 29 2004, 09:28 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AJ's320i @ Oct 29 2004, 09:28 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-DeathMetal@Oct 29 2004, 06:12 PM you dont need more brakes if you have more power. Obviously you dont apply power and brakes at the same time. And how much extra weight are we talkng about?
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Not to sound rude but it sounds like you've never driven a car with tons of power and stock brakes. When you make more power you will be going faster and will need better brakes to slow you down. If you drive in traffic you won't need better brakes with more power but on a hard drive through some twisty road and you soon find out why you need better brakes when you make more power. If you didn't know all the M series cars have upgraded brakes from the factory for this reason.
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Not to sound rude but it sounds like you've never taken a physics class. Horsepower has nothing to do with brake effort. It takes the SAME amount of braking effort to stop a car weighing 3000 lbs from 100 - 0 mph, regardless whether the car has 100 horspower or 500 horsepower.
The only thing that would require bigger brakes is if the car weighed more because you would then have more mass to decelerate. So, unless this engine modification would add a substantial amount of weight (over 1000 lbs), upgrading the brakes should not be neccessary.
The M cars have upgraded brakes not because they make more power. They have upgraded brakes because, as the flagship units of the brand, they have upgraded EVERYTHING, and are pure-performance vehicles.
And while I agree that it is NICE to have the best possible brakes, it is not NECESSARY to upgrade the brakes just because you're swapping to a bigger engine unless that engine adds significantly to your car's weight. Big brakes would be beneficial as part of an OVERALL performance upgrade - not just because the car makes more power than before.
Your reasoning holds up only if the original poster's driving HABITS change after the engine mod. If the additon of more power would mean that this person would then drive more aggresively than usual, then yes, he would need biger brakes. But the brake upgrade itself would not be necessitated by the engine upgrade, but by the driving style upgrade. The engine upgrade would simply make the driving style upgrade possible. But if this guy does not intend to push the car to its new upgraded power limit, then I see no need for bigger brakes.
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Originally posted by Aether@Oct 30 2004, 07:04 PM I don't think someone would drop an M3 motor into an E30 so that they could drive at the same speeds they did with an M20.
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Exactly. You should match engine performance with braking performance.
In a way HP does matter for braking effort, especially on a track. If you have a powerfull engine in a track car with stock brakes you won't make it past a few laps without haveing some sort of brake failure. Lets say you have a stock E30 on the track and you get to 70 mph at the end of a straight before you enter the brakeingzone. Now you have an E30 with a modded S50 in it and now you get to 95 mph when you enter the braking zone. It is going to take a lot more brake effort to slow the car down from 95mph that it was to slow it down from 70 to safely make the turn with the E30 that has the S50 in it because of the higher speeds that are reached.
Like I said in my other post, on the street under regular driving it isn't going to make much of a difference what engine you have when you brake, but when you start to push the car you will find the brakes to be lacking compaired to when the car had a stock engine.
Originally posted by AJ's320i+Oct 31 2004, 04:21 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AJ's320i @ Oct 31 2004, 04:21 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Aether@Oct 30 2004, 07:04 PM I don't think someone would drop an M3 motor into an E30 so that they could drive at the same speeds they did with an M20.
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Exactly. You should match engine performance with braking performance.
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AJ is absolutely right. your brakes are going to be working much harder during performance driving with a big boost in power. if you keep the stock brakes but have an extra 100hp, your braking distances are going to increase at almost every turn, therefore they will have to work under alot more stress and heat than they were made to do.
I thougth this topic was a dead horse, but since you guys INSIST on flogging it some more, I'm just going to say this: the need for better brakes will be brougfht about by HARDER driving, not by more horsepower. More horsepower will simply make HARDER driving possible. Can we just agree on that and move on?
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