Sway Bars

[JoeMadoo]

I'm looking to flatten out corners. What size is a good size sway bar to have for street driving. I was looking at this 25mm tubular bar on bimmerworld.com that uses M3 style mounts that mount on the strut instead of the control arm. I didnt know that was possible, and im still not acutally sure if it is.

So i guess to sum up my question... What size, tubular or solid, and will m3 mounting work.

[gotKRAUT]

honestly sway bars are useless for a street car, they limit independent suspension travel thus reverse engineering your suspension. You are much better off going to stiffer spring rates, unless you like hopping around in the turns lol...

[JoeMadoo]

I want a little less body roll. Do you know anything about the M3 link setup?

[BMWJNKY]

Originally Posted by JoeMadoo

I want a little less body roll. Do you know anything about the M3 link setup?

A stiffer spring does the same thing a sway bar does. The way the M3 bar mounts to the strut tube increases the force the sway bar puts out. So you can take your stock bar, get the M3 sway bar end links and then get the mounts welded to your strut tube. Doing this will make your stock bar act like a slightly upgraded bar. Another opition is to get the stock M3 rear bar and stock 325i vert front bar and put them on your 325. These bars are bigger than the stock 325i bars and are a nice upgrade and not so big that they make driving more harsh like the big aftermarket bars do.

[Rfitz25]

My mechanics said Springs alone wont do it you need thick sway bars to eliminate body roll. I agree.
Suspension Techniques 22mm front and 19mm rear.
$325 LOL
adjustible front links to eliminate preload
reinforce rearmounts at a shop ororder turnermotorsports bracket that throughbolts the trunk.
Yes if if you go too far the car will go on 3 or 2 wheels before they slide. LOL

[gotKRAUT]

wrong, a car with sport springs and 22/19 sway bars is going to handle arguably worse that with just springs. It may eliminate "roll" but the car is not going to react properly in a turn, especially if there are even the slightest bumps in the turn. It will cause the car to lurch and jump, or bounce if you will.

The reason being that when you add a large sway bar you are basically eliminating all independent movement of the suspension. When your right front tire hits a bump it lifts the left front tire too, just the car becomes really light up front and/or air born....thus causing a hop and or slide and vice versa

The proper way to solve the "roll" issue is higher spring rates, NOT eliminating independent travel of the suspension

The reason race/track cars can get away with sport springs/mild spring rates and sway bars is the the tracks are flawlessly smooth. But most racers agree, higher spring rates long before bigger sway bars, you want independent suspension travel

[BMWJNKY]

Originally Posted by Rfitz25

My mechanics said Springs alone wont do it you need thick sway bars to eliminate body roll. I agree.
Suspension Techniques 22mm front and 19mm rear.
$325 LOL
adjustible front links to eliminate preload
reinforce rearmounts at a shop ororder turnermotorsports bracket that throughbolts the trunk.
Yes if if you go too far the car will go on 3 or 2 wheels before they slide. LOL

You and your mechanic needs a ride in my car then.

I have stock "i" sway bars with GC/Eibach springs, 440 in. Lbs front and 475 in. Lbs rear and my car is very balanced and flat through the turns. If I even bother upgrading the sway bars on my car I'm only going to do the OE upgrade and run the M3 bar in the rear and the 'vert bar in the front.

[Rfitz25]

OK I'm getting the mesage. Good feedback.
I have Bilstien sports and suspension technique springs 1.6" drop and I forget the spring rates but they are x% stiffer than stock as they better be.
I'll check again maybe the Eibachs are stiffer.
OK, Felix from STS is going to call me back with the exact numbers.
My car handles great compared to the stock set up but when I autocross I can still get it to body roll more than I'd like, particularly with sticky new Yokohamma ES100 205 60 14's
With old Dunlops it would drift nicely before the angle got too extreme.
But it was still more roll than I'd like.
I admit I'll sacrifice comfort and some stability over the bumps.
But for autocross or track days I think I'll take the bars.
I'll let everyone know how they work once I get em.
Of course trimming all that excess weight (up high) would help too.
ie remove sunroof/motor and hood replace with fiberglass or carbon fiber,
remove electric windows and strip the interior remove all seats add one sparco EVO.seat roll cage, fire system, etc
maybe next year. LOL

Maybe I should drive up to Lincoln and race BMWJNKY LOL
or try driviing eachothers E30's, that would be fun
or meet a Willow Springs...
Just keep him away from my MILF. LOL

[gotKRAUT]

lol, i dunno what mods you have but i highly doubt you stand a chance against his setup

[BMWJNKY]

Originally Posted by Rfitz25

Just keep him away from my MILF. LOL

LOL, its been a while since I've had one so you better keep a short leash on her



Full list of my suspension mods...

Suspension & Drivetrain Mods:
-Ireland Engineering poly rear subframe mounts
-Ireland Engineering front strut brace
-Ireland Engineering stainless brake hoses
-Ireland Engineering poly rear control arm bushings
-Ireland Engineering stainless braided brake hoses
-3.25 LSD with Z3 M roadster rear cover
-Treehouse Racing control arm mounts
-Turner Motorsport lug bolt to wheel stud conversion
-Z4 3.0 short shift kit
-Ground Control Coil-over kit
-Ground Control front camber/caster plates
-Ground Control rear shock mounts with poly bushings
-Koni SA Struts and Shocks
-Zimmerman cross drilled rotors front and rear
-PBR MetalMaster brake pads front and rear
-SSR Comp wheels in 16X7

My E30 is the #3 3 Series on Car Domain WOOT http://www.cardomain.com/MakeModel/BMW/3-Series

[gotKRAUT]

of all 3 series, not just E30, thats insane lol, nice

[jfertita]

Originally Posted by BMWJNKY

LOL, its been a while since I've had one so you better keep a short leash on her



Full list of my suspension mods...

Suspension & Drivetrain Mods:
-Ireland Engineering poly rear subframe mounts
-Ireland Engineering front strut brace
-Ireland Engineering stainless brake hoses
-Ireland Engineering poly rear control arm bushings
-Ireland Engineering stainless braided brake hoses
-3.25 LSD with Z3 M roadster rear cover
-Treehouse Racing control arm mounts
-Turner Motorsport lug bolt to wheel stud conversion
-Z4 3.0 short shift kit
-Ground Control Coil-over kit
-Ground Control front camber/caster plates
-Ground Control rear shock mounts with poly bushings
-Koni SA Struts and Shocks
-Zimmerman cross drilled rotors front and rear
-PBR MetalMaster brake pads front and rear
-SSR Comp wheels in 16X7

My E30 is the #3 3 Series on Car Domain WOOT http://www.cardomain.com/MakeModel/BMW/3-Series

damn how did you afford all of that? just the ground control system alone is over 2,000 dollars.

but good job :lol:

[BMWJNKY]

Originally Posted by jfertita

damn how did you afford all of that? just the ground control system alone is over 2,000 dollars.

but good job :lol:

Its been a slow build up over about 3 years. Also working at and having friends that own BMW shops helps a lot.

[Rfitz25]

Sweet ride, Nice pics on car domain.
No way I could keep up with you. M50 v M20.... Not
I'm 6 mos into this build and got a ways to go yet.
How do you like the PBR MetalMaster brake pads?
Are they hard on the rotors?
I started another thread about pads and some one else sugested these as well. Sounds like they bite hard, dont fade, low dust but need to warm up and are hard on rotors.
I was looking at Pagid, Pagid Blue and Mintex C tech?
I'll check out MetalMasters as well.

I think I want these mods too
-Ireland Engineering poly rear subframe mounts

[BMWJNKY]

Originally Posted by Rfitz25

Sweet ride, Nice pics on car domain.
No way I could keep up with you. M50 v M20.... Not
I'm 6 mos into this build and got a ways to go yet.
How do you like the PBR MetalMaster brake pads?
Are they hard on the rotors?
I started another thread about pads and some one else sugested these as well. Sounds like they bite hard, dont fade, low dust but need to warm up and are hard on rotors.
I was looking at Pagid, Pagid Blue and Mintex C tech?
I'll check out MetalMasters as well.

I think I want these mods too
-Ireland Engineering poly rear subframe mounts

I liked the PBR pads but they take a while to warm up. The harshness on the rotors isn't that bad, only slightly more than stock. Right now I'm just running some Mintex red box pads to get more cold bite to make up for the small booster I have to run with the M50.

Eventually I'm going to switch to the E30 M3 brakes with 5 lug.

At some point I'm going to go all out and run this set-up with no booster.