New owner, old car :) - BMW Forum - BimmerWerkz.com
3-Series (E21, E30) Chat relating to the BMW 3-Series from 1975-1983 and 1984-1991 line. Specific models: BMW 315, BMW 316, BMW 318, BMW 318i, BMW 320/4, BMW 320i, BMW 320/6, BMW 323i, BMW 320i. E30 Family models include: BMW 325e, BMW 325i, BMW 325is, BMW 325ix.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
#1 (permalink) Old 11-21-2010, 05:30 PM
n00b
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Guelph, ON
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
AndrewG is on a distinguished road
(Thread Starter)
New owner, old car :)

Disclaimer
-----------
Before anyone flames me for asking that age old question, Why won't my E30 start" please recognise that I DID read all and every post I could find online ! I tried everything, I have the Bentley Guide, I have the Haynes manual and I have a pretty full toolkit, the only thing I don't have is a working 1985 325e !

OK That's out of the way.

I got a 1985 325e recently that was a fully running car and just needed some minor things fixed to get it on the road. When I say fully running, I drove it to my house and regularly moved it around ont he driveway while I waited for parts.

The first fix was the Windshield Wiper linkage and replacement of the blower motor. This was completed in an afternoon and the car still worked, i.e. turned over, fired and moved.

Second fix was a new alternator as there was no voltage from the old one. In replacing this I had to take off the Air Filter, diconnecting the MAF and something else connected to the top of the Air Filter. Replacing everything the way I found it, unfortunately since then the car has not fired !

I have beautiful spark, full fuel delivery and even have replaced the fuel with brand new fuel draining the tank by bypassing the relay to make the fuel pump run full time (as per Bentley).

However, the car will not fire at all, I can turn it over till the battery is dead (and then fully recharge) but nothing.

Took the plugs out, they were wet, dried them, left them out for a few hours after turning the car over with no plugs to clear the cylinders, nothing.

I'm at a bit of a loss at this stage and I'm REALLY hoping someone here can help.

Thanks,


Andrew
AndrewG is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 (permalink) Old 11-22-2010, 01:28 AM
42, The meaning of life
 
brettski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2,405
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
brettski is just really nice brettski is just really nice brettski is just really nice brettski is just really nice brettski is just really nice
Welcome to the Werkz. Hopefully someone here can help

So confirming that you have a solid crank from the starter motor, a spark on all xylinders and each injector is firing? You should get a strong smell of unburnt fuel from the exhaust but still no sign of ignition? Something doesn't add up, unless the crank position sensor is way out, or the injectors aren't firing properly. Is it possible that the MAF as collected some serious crud in the process? Try disconnecting the MAF and crank it over, see if there are any changes to the symptoms.


Riding in style
brettski is offline  
#3 (permalink) Old 11-22-2010, 08:00 AM
n00b
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Guelph, ON
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
AndrewG is on a distinguished road
(Thread Starter)
Thanks for the quick reply.

Confirmed, have spark, solid crank and fuel going through the rail as tested with the cold start injector, fuel entering the rail and fuel leaving the Fuel Pressure Regulator !

Last night about 10pm after posting I even called a friend to come an turn it over as I had a brain fart and wanted to make sure the timing belt was moving ! No problems there either, thank God I have an understanding Gear Head for a friend

The MAF is probably crudded up as there has been fuel coming UP through the intake it got flooded so bad ! I'll disconnect and try tonight.

Just another piece of info I forgot, even putting Quick Start (Ether) in the air intake on the side of the plenum while cranking gets not hint of ignition.

For the crank position sensor, I tested the resistance and get the proper spec from Bentley. I also thought if the sensor was gone, I wouldn't get spark at all, is that correct ?
AndrewG is offline  
#4 (permalink) Old 11-22-2010, 08:14 AM
n00b
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Guelph, ON
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
AndrewG is on a distinguished road
(Thread Starter)
Tried disconnecting the MAF before i left for work. Same problem. Engine is not catching at all and flooding.

I'll leave the 2AMP charger on for the day and come back this evening. Very strange.
AndrewG is offline  
#5 (permalink) Old 11-23-2010, 04:51 AM
42, The meaning of life
 
brettski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2,405
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
brettski is just really nice brettski is just really nice brettski is just really nice brettski is just really nice brettski is just really nice
To help dry out the cylinders of excess fuel, pull the spark plugs out as well as the fuel pump fuse. Crank it over to push some air through the system and hopefully expell the unburnt fuel that it sounds like you have accumulated in the system. Make sure that there is no source of spark when you are doing this. Are the injectors possibly sitting open constantly, or can you hear them firing individually?


Riding in style
brettski is offline  
#6 (permalink) Old 11-24-2010, 07:07 PM
n00b
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Guelph, ON
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
AndrewG is on a distinguished road
(Thread Starter)
LOL Great minds think alike, etc etc

Did these steps last night and made sure there was no fuel in the cylinders. Was a bit more risk taking and put a torch to the plug hole Yup all the fuel was gone after THAT !

I was humming and hawing about the possibility of reduced fuel pressure not atomizing through the injectors and in the absence of a fuel pressure gauge, clamped the return pipe off the pressure regulator to see if it would even fire after clearing out the cylinders.

NOPE

I am utterly at a loss. To the best of my reading ability, if there is spark at the plugs and fuel is being pumped on turn over then the crank sensor et al are functioning ! So the engine has spark, fuel, air (took off the hose from the MAF to the intake) and compression. Am I missing something basic ? What's left !
AndrewG is offline  
#7 (permalink) Old 11-24-2010, 11:41 PM
n00b
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Guelph, ON
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
AndrewG is on a distinguished road
(Thread Starter)
Just decided to go through the triangle again, fuel, spark and air.

Pressure on the fuel rail, cold start injector working, have to get a noid set tomorrow but since it's flooding the fuel is getting there in some part anyway

Tested each spark plug individually, nice white/blue spark on each one

Hmm..... had been assuming air as I had the MAF disconnected from the plenum so theory would have that the engine can suck straight in through the throttle body.

Well, unless a 2.7 L engine can ignite fuel on a puff of air, there's probably something wrong here ! I have 4.2 L '95 Range Rover and on ignition if you put your hand over the intake like that you run the risk of losing it at the wrist ! Not on this test.

Anyone any ideas on the expected flow rate ?
AndrewG is offline  
#8 (permalink) Old 11-26-2010, 11:58 PM
n00b
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Guelph, ON
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
AndrewG is on a distinguished road
(Thread Starter)
Running out of ideas. Compression test tomorrow. I'll let you know how I get on !
AndrewG is offline  
#9 (permalink) Old 11-27-2010, 03:55 PM
n00b
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Guelph, ON
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
AndrewG is on a distinguished road
(Thread Starter)
Perfect Compression

First time I've ever been sad about that !

Not sure what to try next !
AndrewG is offline  
#10 (permalink) Old 11-27-2010, 05:07 PM
42, The meaning of life
 
brettski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2,405
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
brettski is just really nice brettski is just really nice brettski is just really nice brettski is just really nice brettski is just really nice
Are you saying there is next to no air being drawn into the cylinders?
Is the throttle body stuck in a closed position? Does the buterfly valve operate as you'd expect?


Riding in style
brettski is offline  
#11 (permalink) Old 11-27-2010, 05:13 PM
n00b
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Guelph, ON
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
AndrewG is on a distinguished road
(Thread Starter)
Throttle valve opens and closes as you'd expect ! However, very little air draw as you turn it over and even spraying some quick start in/at the intake opening gives no 'catch' !
AndrewG is offline  
#12 (permalink) Old 11-27-2010, 05:37 PM
42, The meaning of life
 
brettski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2,405
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
brettski is just really nice brettski is just really nice brettski is just really nice brettski is just really nice brettski is just really nice
Does it sound like its cranking at full speed?
Have you got the plugs connected in the right order?
Can you hear the individual firing of the injectors as it cranks?


Riding in style
brettski is offline  
#13 (permalink) Old 11-27-2010, 05:44 PM
42, The meaning of life
 
brettski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2,405
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
brettski is just really nice brettski is just really nice brettski is just really nice brettski is just really nice brettski is just really nice
There isn't anything blocking the exhaust or restricting the air flow into the intake manifold is there?


Riding in style
brettski is offline  
#14 (permalink) Old 11-27-2010, 05:56 PM
n00b
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Guelph, ON
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
AndrewG is on a distinguished road
(Thread Starter)
Nothing, I've taken off the hose to the air intake on the throttle body which also leaves the idle adjustment valve hose open.

Spraying quickstart in either of these doesn't do a thing !

I'm starting to wonder if my cam timing is off. Thought through it again and even out of sync I would get good compression, but the spark and compression would be off. However, I though this was an interference engine, so if it was off, I'm sure I would've HEARD it by now
AndrewG is offline  
#15 (permalink) Old 11-27-2010, 06:24 PM
n00b
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Guelph, ON
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
AndrewG is on a distinguished road
(Thread Starter)
I'm going to check the voltage at the starter motor and the coil tomorrow, it's dark here now, and also get a stethoscope to listen to the injectors.

More updates in the morning.
AndrewG is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  BMW Forum - BimmerWerkz.com > BMW Model Specific Forums > 3-Series (E21, E30)


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Owner 1997 540I owner jhartmac 5-Series (E12,E28, E34, E39, E60) 3 07-13-2011 06:28 PM
e34 previous owner e36 new owner PScalfano New Members Check In 2 04-23-2007 12:20 PM
New Owner Soon! Booyah 3-Series (E46, E90) 2 12-11-2004 08:38 PM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome