Engine swaps for E30's - BMW Forum - BimmerWerkz.com
3-Series (E21, E30) Chat relating to the BMW 3-Series from 1975-1983 and 1984-1991 line. Specific models: BMW 315, BMW 316, BMW 318, BMW 318i, BMW 320/4, BMW 320i, BMW 320/6, BMW 323i, BMW 320i. E30 Family models include: BMW 325e, BMW 325i, BMW 325is, BMW 325ix.

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#1 (permalink) Old 08-23-2004, 12:06 PM
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Hey guys, I am pretty new to the forum even though I spend the last year researching E30's. I have very big plans for my 325is but all of them are sort of held up by the engine. I want some decent power and torque (250+) at the wheels but am not sure if I can get that from a M20 without selling a kidney and half my liver. So I started looking at engine swaps but man I was shocked to see what some people do (I could not belive that a V12 would fit into an E30, ).

The M50 and S38 seem to be mostly used but I just wanted to find out what you guys have experience with or what your opinions are?!? Also, how much can I get out of a M20 naturally aspirated, no chargers?? 250 rwhp??? What about the 3.0 stroker conversion kit I heard about??

I am a bit scared from going to a 400hp (M5 engine) monster since the 325 is very small and I do want to take it racing. i don't want to add too much weight nor have too much power and mess the car up .

Also, how much money would it take to get a decent swap?? I am sure that the wiring harness, the computer, the tranny and the diff would have to be changed probably with the rear axles (basically whole drivetrain) but how much are we talkin about here??

Anyhow, I hope you guys help me out 'cause this is the only decision left before I turn this baby inside out .

Thank you!!

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#2 (permalink) Old 08-23-2004, 12:49 PM
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actually the v12 has been fitin in a e30. so has a s62 engine. most common swap is the s50b30 and s50b32 because the amount of aftermarket parts and OEM parts for repairs.

<img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y149/QnRainStar/e30-blackangus032.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

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#3 (permalink) Old 08-23-2004, 01:41 PM
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Do a rotary.
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#4 (permalink) Old 08-23-2004, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Halon@Aug 23 2004, 02:21 PM
Do a rotary.
put a lawn mower engine in it..... B)

Kyle Sutherland

1995 BMW 540i/6:
The Calypso Beast Vid 0-70ish
1987 BMW 325es: Face & Butt Lifted/M50tu Swapped*Sold*
1985 VW Scirocco: Too many mods, money pit*Sold*
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#5 (permalink) Old 08-23-2004, 06:18 PM
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You need to decide on what your budget is then start making plans, as to what type of driving events you are going to. You might class yourself right into a bracket where your car is totally uncompetitive.

Is it going to be street driven, can afford to be over budget, do you have back up transpo while it's down for the swap? Lots of questions, that only you can answer.

I budgeted 4.3k for my swap. M50b25 single vanos from a E34 with a 5 speed swap also. My car was an automatic. But it ran slightly overbudget but I recovered money back when I sold off parts to cover damage.

Think about it. There not too many people that will pay 9k for an E30 with over 150k miles on it, so don't expect to make money on the deal.
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#6 (permalink) Old 08-23-2004, 07:15 PM
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just build up your iS with a 3.0 stroker...much more worth your money...motor swaps reduce the value of your car...

Kyle Sutherland

1995 BMW 540i/6:
The Calypso Beast Vid 0-70ish
1987 BMW 325es: Face & Butt Lifted/M50tu Swapped*Sold*
1985 VW Scirocco: Too many mods, money pit*Sold*
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#7 (permalink) Old 08-23-2004, 07:15 PM
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and to continue the trend...go to WWW.SEAMBMW.COM !!!

Kyle Sutherland

1995 BMW 540i/6:
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1987 BMW 325es: Face & Butt Lifted/M50tu Swapped*Sold*
1985 VW Scirocco: Too many mods, money pit*Sold*
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#8 (permalink) Old 08-24-2004, 04:27 AM
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yeah seambmw... that guy slvre30is is a team driver for seam... way to go seam... yay...

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#9 (permalink) Old 08-24-2004, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by e30devo@Aug 24 2004, 05:07 AM
yeah seambmw... that guy slvre30is is a team driver for seam... way to go seam... yay...

Kyle Sutherland

1995 BMW 540i/6:
The Calypso Beast Vid 0-70ish
1987 BMW 325es: Face & Butt Lifted/M50tu Swapped*Sold*
1985 VW Scirocco: Too many mods, money pit*Sold*
E34 Plate Filler Wanted!
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#10 (permalink) Old 08-24-2004, 07:47 AM
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Yeah you guys are right with the resale value but I am not really trying to sell this car ever. I was nine when I wanted it now I am 24 and belive me I am going to keep it.

I see that the 3.0 stroker kit seems intersting, especially considering that the engine will not get heavier, significantly, as opposed to going to other engines. But my question is what do I get from the 3.0 stroker kit??? What are the numbers that people are runing with these engines (torque and hp)?? I really do not wish to add chargers to my car, I don't like them,

Also, do you guys know what is considered overpowered for an E30?? Do people with 300+hp run into reliability issuses with the chassis, suspension, drivetrain etc.???

The budget is not a big issue since I rather race the car with the stock engine and save money so that later I can get another engine instead of waisting 3-4 grand on the M20 and than deciding I need more. I am thinking of investing 20k in this car (no paint job) and mostly just race on road courses and auto-x's. I am not concentrated on one single competition and being the best in it but am more concentrated on having a little "all around" car that I can go test and tune with friends, and still go drive on the street after that. Ohhh and since living in detroit, I would not mind blowing these muslce cars away from light to light.

The only unfortunate thing is that I am not very experienced with engines hence that being the only part I really don't know what to do about.

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#11 (permalink) Old 08-24-2004, 08:41 AM
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3 liter kits will give you approximately 220hp max with good tq curves. You won't be toasting Muscle cars anytime soon. With a turbo bolted to the side of a stock M20 you can get 290 + depending on the system you go.

Check this site out they sell a kit for some ducates but it makes good numbers and performs well. I have driven this car both the 5 and the 3 and they are a good setup.

http://www.turbochargingdynamics.com/
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#12 (permalink) Old 08-24-2004, 09:22 AM
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See this is what I am talking about man, $7000 just to get a turbo set up in the car?!?!? That money is better spend trying to get an engine swap and I will be getting about the same power naturaly aspirated.

Does any one here have a E30 with 250+ rwhp naturally aspirated??? And if, what did you do?!?!

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#13 (permalink) Old 08-24-2004, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by XtremeDream@Aug 24 2004, 10:02 AM
See this is what I am talking about man, $7000 just to get a turbo set up in the car?!?!?

7k??

Stage I – Non Intercooled $3875



Cast iron turbo exhaust manifold

TO4E Turbo
Tial External Wastegate
3” downpipe (ceramic coated)

Intake pipe (ceramic coated)
Charged air pipe (ceramic coated)
24lb injectors
Billet RRFPR
Bosch bypass valve
AFM bracket
K&N Filter
All necessary silicone couplers and stainless hose clamps
Exhaust manifold gaskets and nuts
Oil supply line and fittings
Oil return line and fittings


Stage II – Intercooled $5125

Stage I +
Water/air intercooler
Bosch continuous duty recirculating pump
Dual aluminum heat exchangers
All necessary hoses and clamps

You are not going to fina a NA M20 engine that makes that much hp with out spending big dollars. It is just not possible. It will end up being a race engine with limited durability and limited power band.

Alpina and Hartge, both only were able to squeeze 21X PS out of their built M20 designs. 250 HP is a strech on this engine, now with FI either Supercharged or Turboed it is possible.
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#14 (permalink) Old 08-24-2004, 10:52 AM
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Ohh, I saw the $5300 one ( ). Still, 3000k for a turbo, no way, my boy bought a full custom manifold with 16g turbos (two), o2 housing and sensors (4of them) for his VR-4 3000 and he payed less than 2.5k!! 3grand just seems a bit too much man, rip off in my opinion.

By the way the 7k included the 3.0 stroker kit and the turbo. Too much man, too much.

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#15 (permalink) Old 08-24-2004, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by XtremeDream@Aug 24 2004, 11:32 AM
Ohh, I saw the $5300 one ( ). Still, 3000k for a turbo, no way, my boy bought a full custom manifold with 16g turbos (two), o2 housing and sensors (4of them) for his VR-4 3000 and he payed less than 2.5k!! 3grand just seems a bit too much man, rip off in my opinion.

By the way the 7k included the 3.0 stroker kit and the turbo. Too much man, too much.
There are not many Tuners building kits nowadays for old dsign engines like the M20. Schneller used to market a kit as did some others but there's no money in it.

Check out a few other boards, Some guys are building there own for 2k or so. The reason TCD kits are that much is due to design and development is not FREE. You have to pay yourself for time invested. Look at Active Autowerks kits they are in the 7k range.

You sound like you might want to go back to FWD and Japan market for a 200+ na car.
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