Is Anything Wrong With My Injectors??? - BMW Forum - BimmerWerkz.com
3-Series (E21, E30) Chat relating to the BMW 3-Series from 1975-1983 and 1984-1991 line. Specific models: BMW 315, BMW 316, BMW 318, BMW 318i, BMW 320/4, BMW 320i, BMW 320/6, BMW 323i, BMW 320i. E30 Family models include: BMW 325e, BMW 325i, BMW 325is, BMW 325ix.

 
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#1 (permalink) Old 11-28-2004, 05:03 PM
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My car has been running like crap lately b/c the fuel tank was rotten. I had it replaced, + fuel filter and fpr, but it still runs like crap. So I took the fuel rail out and found gunk everywhere AND one injector is different than the others. I dont really see any junk in the injector screens or anything, but I'm still gonna blast them with brake parts cleaner + compressed air. Couple of questions: judging by the looks of the pictures, does anyone think cleaning them out will help? Could it HURT? Which way do I blow the compressed air through???
Cheers
Mark[attachmentid=15613][attachmentid=15614]
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#2 (permalink) Old 11-29-2004, 02:09 AM
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Roughly how hard is it to get the fuel injectors and fuel rail out and all that. I am no mechanic by any means, I didn't know anything basically till I got my E30 =) hehe. But I've learned a great deal. I understand its located sort of under the intake manifold by the valve cover, and my car has 286k big miles on it, so It might be advised that I clean my injectors too. By the way, my car was taken care of shitty before I bought it. and they put HOLES in my wheelwell and all that with there crap alarm system and other dumb stuff. It's my car hehe.

Also, does anyone know if there would be any advantages to 325I fuel rail and 325I injectors in a 325e, or would that even work, or they could be the same, I am not knowledgeable about that. Didn't mean to try to steal your thread or anything, I thought it was sorta on the same topic.

-Andre
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#3 (permalink) Old 11-29-2004, 10:36 PM
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I don't know about swapping 325i injectors + rail. I *do* know that my first attempt at getting the rail out was a major pain. Here's how:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticl...or_cleaning.htm

It's pretty easy to follow. The hard parts are getting the rail to come out, there's hardly any room to move the rail + injectors at once. Make sure all the electrical lines are out of the way. I unclipped them from their plastic retaining clips and stretched them out of the way as much as possible, this is key. Good luck it's not that bad.
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#4 (permalink) Old 11-30-2004, 01:39 PM
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hay "e30eta"

just a question, or 3

1 how long did it take for you , to accomplish the whole task,
2 are the electrical wires and connectors easy to get back to the right spot?
3 what if i dont own a air pump?
4 you say-"first attempt". how many tries does it take,
5 are there any spare parts i should buy
6 what was your drive like before and after>? jobs done
7 that site is great, and it states its easy, im just afraid to ruin my car.
8 how would i know if i need NEW injectors? would i know?
9 does the intake manifold come off too?

thanks im trying to get my e30 in prime condition. and its lacking power compared to my friends 325ix

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#5 (permalink) Old 11-30-2004, 08:38 PM
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1 how long did it take for you , to accomplish the whole task,
took a break for dinner, worked out in the cold dark driveway (with a nice bright shop light), and it really only took me about 40 minutes to get everything off and out, and about 20 minutes to get it back together

2 are the electrical wires and connectors easy to get back to the right spot?
on my car they were. all the lengths and natural bends of the wires tell you where each goes, not really any second guessing that. only trick might be one of the coolant sensors, which has only 1 prong in a normal 2 prong connector. Just make sure that one prong goes onto the correct sensor. no biggie there.

3 what if i dont own a air pump?
i'm not sure how much it actually helped. It *may* have jarred loose some contaminants that were deep inside the injector, or coked onto whatever valve is in there, but I didn't see any funk flying out when I blew them out.

4 you say-"first attempt". how many tries does it take,
it took me 2 b/c I didn't take off the idle control valve and cold start injector the first go, and even though people said it was possible, I didn't believe there was enough room to maneuver the fuel rail+injectors out of there in one piece, but there IS.

5 are there any spare parts i should buy
Some people say get new o riings for the injectors and fuel pressure reg if you're taking that off too (which I did). I got a universal set from Advance or somewhere like that and they looked about a millimeter too small so I didn't trust them. So I just oiled up the old ones (which weren't dry rotted or split) and reused them. Not ideal, but better than something that might not fit correctly. Ideally I would have bought a new set from the dealer or a place that actually carries them specifically for our injectors.

6 what was your drive like before and after>? jobs done
Better throttle response, a bit harder pull I guess. Just giving some life back to the ole eta. There was a lot of caked on crap on the tip of the injector (look at the pic above, the tip is supposed to be orange), so I'm sure it helped the spray pattern. Probably will help economy also in the long run. Actually the first time I fired it up it ideled really high for a few seconds, so I think they were working better but the computer didn't realize it for a while hah.

7 that site is great, and it states its easy, im just afraid to ruin my car.
I was too, and I thought I had.

8 how would i know if i need NEW injectors? would i know?
I don't know. I would call around to see if there is a place in your area who cleans injectors ultrasonically. This is a popular and very efective way to blast the years of crud off the internals. They may also be able to tell you how to visually inspect them better, although there's not much to see from the outside.

9 does the intake manifold come off too?
Nope. Again, I swore up and down it wasn't possible to remove the rail without removing the mani, in which case I quit the first time around. But some wiggling and properly/thoroughly moving the wires out of the way is the key. You will be tilting the rail towards you, tips of the injectors towards the opposite side of the car. The rail will come out first, followed by the injectors last, if that makes sense.

Good luck, it's not so bad after you get into it. I have the same reserves about working on things like brakes and anything to do with fuel, b/c well, those are kind of major things to dink around with if something goes wrong.
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#6 (permalink) Old 12-01-2004, 02:15 PM
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thansks so very much for the MOST detailed response, and
im going to do this with the confidence you share.

for reference, (dealer stated)

the (my) 89-325i conv. does not have a "cold start injector" so 6 seals are ok
the cost of the seals vary,
- DEALER = 3dollars each,x 6 top+ 6bottum = 46.oo dollars
- auto supply = all 12 (maybe from china) = 2.70 (3 bucks)

the fuel rail SLIDES across towards the passenger wheels and NOT towards the radiator or firewall. this little step was confusing my narrow vision.

recomendations from the Dealer
- useing Vasoline is advised when installing the injectors, or oil too.
- useing techroline injector cleaner on the e30's every 30 days. prone to carbon build-up
-
* the service in Bellevue, Wa is really helpfull too, they printed out 3 detailed maps of what i needed to do and even gave me the micrometer specs on the OEM seals to measure against the AFTER-MARKET ones.

i will share the info to anyone who needs them, just email me

"thanks E20eta "
now ill know if I need to buy new injectors without paying a mechanic 300.00 for his time.

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#7 (permalink) Old 12-03-2004, 07:24 PM
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YES, I forgot to add ****lubricate the o-rings before you put the injectors back into the fuel rail, AND then also the ones that go into the mani**** This helped a ton, and the motor oil will no doubt help condition those puppies and they'll last longer.

I use Techron sometimes. I find that RedLine makes better products for a quick cleanup. One step better than that may be BG Products, which can only be found at some dealers and very few parts places.

Good luck and have fun!!
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#8 (permalink) Old 12-03-2004, 08:48 PM
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okay Eta30

i tried and got everything out of the way for the injector rail to come out.

then i chickened out because

1 i am afraid to break anything, the
2 fuel rail is plastic and i read that post about finding 4 bolts holding the rail in place. i cant see any are they hidden?
3 i couldnt get the electrical parts to UN-PLUG again they seem brittle

where how do those electrical clips come off, (its not like the 2 by the rotor with the nice PUSH-IN metal bar and the houseing slides off) the metal bars on the injectors are already in all the way and i just dont understarnd how they come off

also i am not sure how to remove the fuel rail..does it pop off, or pry off?

do i pull it towards me without worrying about breakind the injectors.
how deep do those injectors bury down?


and thanks for the tips about the oil and all, the dealer said vasoline is okay too...

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#9 (permalink) Old 12-03-2004, 11:31 PM
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i started to remove the injectors but was afraid they would break.
I was afraid of this also, but they are pretty strong. But if you think you are straining them too much, just stop and look/feel around, there is most likely something in your way. It could be as little as one of the electrical wires laying the wrong way, blocking a cm of clearance.



i also cant find the 4 screws that "pelican's web-help-site" states holding them in place.
These are really 4 bolts, goldish in color, that bolt the fuel rail to the intake mani. If you get you head down there you will see the heads of the bolts- one at the ends of the rail, and 2 near the middle. I posted a picture to help. In pic rail007 the bolt is almost dead center. THere are 4 like it. I am sure you can find the one in pic rail008 also. That's all that holds it in.


what tools do i need?
10mm socket if I recall correctly is all you need. A long extension is needed to get the rail bolts. I also took off the bracket for the idle control valve (which is bolted to the valve cover, as seen in rail008) and removed all that to have more room. I also took off the cold start injector, which is 3 more bolts of 10mm I am pretty sure. I just folded back those 2 things away from me (I was working from the passenger side of the car).

and how far do the injectors go into the engine.?
not far at all. If you look back at my first pics and locate the o-rings, those sit in the intake manifold about 1cm down in there. So, once you pop those out by prying up on the fuel rail a little from each side at a time, you will only be dealing with the injector tips, and you shouldn't be scraping or stressing those out. If you are, again, make sure everything is out of the way as best as you can. There is enought room if you have all the wires pulled out of the way pretty tight.


also how does the elec. clips get removed from injectors.?
The metal bars you see get pushed in towards the injector, and then just slide the whole part off the injector. A few of mine acted a little stuck, so little prying helps, but not too much, the old plastic could be brittle. I did break a clip on the coolant temp sensor, doh!

i removed everything except the fuel rail and elect. rails+injectors.
I think you are all set, go for it!
On a side note, never mind the burned parts of my car, that was all from a previous incident with a separate issue. It's embarassing but I haven't taken care of that yet. It still runs fine and no wires were damaged, that one is exposed but that's it. But it does bring up a bit of safety. After putting it back together, I unhooked the ignition wire from the coil and moved it away. If something isn't quite right, you don't want fuel + spark right there together. A better idea may be to pull the fuse for the ignition coil altogether. I cranked the car for a few seconds to make sure the air was out of the system and it was not going to leak. Then I fired it up and let it idle for a few minutes, keeping a sharp eye out for leaks. I cut it off a few times to make sure. It's always better to be safe. If you have a fire extinguisher, have it handy. I would also give the engine bay time to dry out once you remove the rail and fuel lines, it will leak a little bit. Don't use solvents or water to wash it away with the rail out, you don't want water or gunk getting into the intake manifold through the holes that are open where the injectors came out.
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#10 (permalink) Old 12-04-2004, 12:00 AM
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thanks e30eta...

those photos (one scary) are very helpful and in fact my elec.plugs are different.

i wish i had your type but ill take some pics tommarow on break and post them. the metal pins are postitioned in . so there is no-way of pushing them, must be another way

also i really dont think i have any bolts in my fuel rail...ikno wierd but ill post pics later.

and thanks for the
ever-so thorough help.
i really appreciate that i may send you a bottle of champaign for new years!


on your car why not wrap those wires with shrink wrap?

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#11 (permalink) Old 12-04-2004, 09:31 PM
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I think I will wrap the wires with something. For now I've got to finish finding the culprit of my low power situation. And a couple people actually want to buy my car, so I'm contemplating that now too. I can't believe how many complimnts I get on it. I guess the days of cleaning it paid off. I went so far as to take the seats out and clean the carpet, and steam the dirt off the tan vinyl. There was 2 years of teenage girl caked onto that car haha.
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#12 (permalink) Old 12-04-2004, 10:51 PM
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a-yeah i get a compliment every month , weekly in the summer when i wash the wheels and wax .

the Low power (like mine) is due to the old catalitic converter which robs the engine of up to 30 hp. especailly in the low rpm's

i love the carpeting in my bmw, i useally dont wear shoes and let the warm air blow my toes while i cruise.

thanks for the help and one last thing.

is it okay (since the injectors are so close to the top) to wobble the fuel rail loose

i mean pulling and pushing from drivers to passengers sides?
or did you use a long lever to force upwards ?

DAniel

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#13 (permalink) Old 12-06-2004, 02:05 PM
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I put a good grip on the rail and the intake mani and just pulled/pried up using my hand. I got it a little loose on one side (i.e I started at the front of the engine), then went to the other side (the rear) of the rail, pried it up, repeat. After about 2 reps it comes all the way up.
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