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3-Series (E21, E30) Chat relating to the BMW 3-Series from 1975-1983 and 1984-1991 line. Specific models: BMW 315, BMW 316, BMW 318, BMW 318i, BMW 320/4, BMW 320i, BMW 320/6, BMW 323i, BMW 320i. E30 Family models include: BMW 325e, BMW 325i, BMW 325is, BMW 325ix.

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Old 04-10-2006, 05:25 AM   #1 (permalink)
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alternate fuel?

can we run our cars on alchol, or a blend of alcohol and gasoline? not just a little added to the fuel but a big mix, say 50/50 or better? what about propane?
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Old 04-10-2006, 05:35 AM   #2 (permalink)
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no real point in running such exotic fuels with no boost and an 8.5:1 comp ratio. If you're really running high boost, yes you can I suppose.
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Old 04-10-2006, 10:42 AM   #3 (permalink)
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There is no way to do this on a stock fuel system. The alc will destroy the rubber lines. Also like triggrhaapi said, there is just no point to doing this with a stock engine.
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Old 04-10-2006, 11:04 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Old 04-10-2006, 12:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
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ARGH! I LOVE THAT MOVIE, but I haven't seen it since it first came out on DVD at my friends $100,000 home theater. It kind of put a bad taste in my mouth about watching that movie on my system... Granted I am a home theater GURU, but not one with THAT kind of cash!

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Old 04-10-2006, 01:55 PM   #6 (permalink)
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yeah my thought process didn't even get as far as what the fuel would do to the parts of the engine, I stopped thinking after my brain determined it was a pointless idea on a stock motor. You get huge gains with a turbo motor tho. One of which is that you don't need an intercooler, because of the low vapor point of alcohol... it pretty much cools the intake charge by itself.
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Old 04-10-2006, 04:29 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhorton1963
can we run our cars on alchol, or a blend of alcohol and gasoline? not just a little added to the fuel but a big mix, say 50/50 or better? what about propane?
How about LPG? That's a mix of propane and butane.
Works pretty well with naturally aspired engines and the latest LPG injection systems offer zero performance loss. Unless you're looking to improve performance...
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Old 04-10-2006, 06:24 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Alcohol or ethenol AKA e85 fuel is going to be a choice of fuel in the not too distant future. Gas is going to go up in price and soon it may be cheaper to use other fuels like alcohol, be educated or be forced to buy a newer multi fuel compatible car like a ford, GAG. Example: What will you do if you can no longer buy gas for under $8 a gallon but alcohol is everywhere for $4, and you can make it yourself for $2 a gallon? It'll happen in our lifetime. Procrastonate and you may find your self as the proverbial victim of the fossil fuel version of hurricane katrina...

There is a lot of work that is needed to be done, alcohol is much more corrosive than gasoline so the tank and all fuel lines must be teffon lined or made of stainless steel with silicone hoses and O-rings. Alcohol burns much more evenly so it's octaine rating to gasoline is about 101 octaine (can any one say high boost turbo ) Anyway, you'll need larger injectors, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, and know how in crease your spring tension in your AFM, because you need more alcohol to prevent a lean condition. You can find more info on this subject on the web.
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Old 04-10-2006, 07:12 PM   #9 (permalink)
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alcohol!!

thats kinda what i was gettin at. i have looked at a few stills on the net and have considered supplementing my gas with a bit of moonshine! i just wanted to know if it could be done. cng or propane may be the better way to go. posted by my son drew!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Old 04-10-2006, 09:22 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Mixing won't be a good option, until an aftermarket muliti-fuel ratio sensor and piggy back ECU can be built to assist adjustment of fuel delivery, spark, and exhaust O2 adjustments and feed back due to the inability to get the mix exact. So supplementing would have bad results, so for now using alcohol would be an all or nothing ordeal. Unless you feel like keeping a stock AFM and stock fuel pressure regulator on top of completely draining the fuel system to switch back and forth.
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Old 04-10-2006, 09:27 PM   #11 (permalink)
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well, i guess ill just drink the stuff,,,,,,,,,,,,,, or mabey trade it for gasoline
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Old 07-29-2006, 08:07 AM   #12 (permalink)
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well folks, now its time to really consider this as a fuel replacement. this fuel has started to show up at some of my local gas stations. its called e85. its a blend of 85% ethenol and 15% gasoline. its 40 to 50 cents cheeper a gallon.
the research that i have done showsw the oppsite from what most nay sayers have posted here. if my fuel system can tolerate the curent blend of 10% ethenol (which most made after 88 can) it will tolerate the 85% blend. if my oxygen sensor is functioning then the ecu should be able to vary the fuel injection pulse width to provide the correct mixture. however, if this is not the case then there are some after market kits (not certified by the epa) that can be purchased for use in other countries. as eluded to in an earlier post, this fuel will be the norm sooner than we think. how hard is it for you to find fuel that has no ethenol now?
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Old 07-29-2006, 03:05 PM   #13 (permalink)
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It will not, the stock computer cannot adapt to provide enough E85 to your motor, you car will run lean, and you will damage your engine. A gasoline engine running on E85 requires up to 20% or more alcohol to even run properly. Plus if you don't line your tank and replace every rubber line your car and possibly your fuel pump, it will be in the salvage yard in no time.

I have not heard about a O2 conversion kit, the only EPA condoned kit that is available is the FlexTek and it is basically an injector driver and a bi-fuel converter that can be installed on most multi-port fuel injected vehicles allowing you to choose between fueling up with either Ethanol, gasoline or a mixture of both. This system costs about $700.
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Old 07-29-2006, 04:07 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Guys,
I Do Not believe that E85 or any other type of ethanol based fuel will ever take a serious strong hold as there is just no way that we could ever grow enough Corn to be able to keep up with the amount of fuel this country consumes on a daily basis! Even if the entire country was farm land and everyone in the country was a farmer! Do the research... just aint gonna happen. The fact is that Fossle fuels are cheap and efficient when compared with many of the alternatives that are supposedly so much better. Yeah E85 is cheaper now but that's because the demand is very low and supply is disperportionately high due to the fact that there aren't that many vehicles able to use the crap! Even if in 5 years all cars were miraculously able to use it, it wouldn't help because we couldn't supply anywhere near as much of it as the amount of fossil fuel we pump every day. While I do agree that at some point we will need to find a better way to fuel our vehicles I don't think that a bio-based fuel will ever be the answer because of the terrible yeild rate of fuel to gross weight that corn or any other "renewable" source offers. Electricity is a much more feasable source as it can be produced from nuclear sources that have exponentially HUGE yeild rates for little to no emissions and one little ball of uranium will power hundreds of thousands of vehicles for upwards of 2 to 3 decades and it only takes up a hundred acres or so of land to have an operational plant! Currently I am making Bio-Diesel in my garage out of recylced waste vegitable oil (WVO). I see no reason why we shouln't make good use of the biologically produced waste as it makes an excellent fuel source and we are already making it for other uses (cooking). But I'm not under the illusion that we could ever power the entire planet off of the stuff! There's no way.
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Old 07-29-2006, 09:01 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Gasoline isn't going to last forever. And so long as companys such as GM, Ford and their likes continue to shun effiency and build unessarly large vehicals and people who use these vehicals for personal transportation there could be another fuel crisis within our life time.

Are E85 or other variants going to replace fossl fuels right away? With current technology it is impossable to stop cold turky. However looking at the advancments made in technology over the last 50 years, we can weine ourselves off fossel fules, we have to. Even if we prepare ourselves for the peaking of oil production with a sensible, broad-based energy plan, we'll still be faced with the pain of prices marching relentlessly higher for years to come in order to match demand to steadily diminishing supplies. If we're not prepared, though, the bad news of peak oil becomes potentially catastrophic: An oil shock leading to global recession at best and a long string of resource wars at worst. Given the choice between these two bad alternatives, and the long lead time required to implement any kind of serious energy plan, we'd be well advised to get started now.

I belive that there won't be a seperate pump that sells E85 at every station in the future, instead, I feel gasoline will be diluted with ethonol with increasing percentages to make it last untill the next "eurika" comes along. Bio-fuels will become part of our lives. Like it or not, conversions or upgrades are the only option to keep our allready paid for cars and vintage steel on the road.

Finally, you wouldn't know it from the hulking SUVs and traffic-clogged freeways of the United States, but we're in the twilight of plentiful oil. There's no global shortage yet; far from it. The world can still produce so much crude that the current price of about $70 for a 42-gallon barrel would plummet if the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) did not limit production. This abundance of oil means, for now, that oil is cheap. In the United States, where gasoline taxes average 43 cents a gallon (instead of dollars, as in Europe and Japan), a gallon of gasoline can be cheaper than a bottle of water—making it too cheap for most people to bother conserving. While oil demand is up everywhere, the U.S. remains the king of consumers, slurping up a quarter of the world's oil—about three gallons a person every day—even though it has just 5 percent of the population. However, If there is no plan to find an alternative, your grand-children or their children will be on horse back cursing us.

That's my say on this subject and I'll leave it alone.
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