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3-Series (E21, E30) Chat relating to the BMW 3-Series from 1975-1983 and 1984-1991 line. Specific models: BMW 315, BMW 316, BMW 318, BMW 318i, BMW 320/4, BMW 320i, BMW 320/6, BMW 323i, BMW 320i. E30 Family models include: BMW 325e, BMW 325i, BMW 325is, BMW 325ix.

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Old 12-03-2003, 02:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
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i am currently thinking upon which engine is a better buy...from ALL aspects of driving/racing, and which one outputs more than the other. I head the 325is is only slower than m3 because solely because of the fact of the ring-and-pinion ratio disadvantage of the 325is (i think it is like 3.75:1 and the m3 is like 4.75:1, i forgot). So what i'm tryign to get at is, which engine would be a better buy, in the aspect of performance, efficiency, and most importantly, MONEY?? and how hard would it be to cop me either engines??

also, would my 85 325e transmission work on these engines? i doubt it.

thanks in advance

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Old 12-03-2003, 02:52 PM   #2 (permalink)
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the m3 is a better engine, you might as well spend the extra cash on it, more room to improve on an already improved engine, ones 2.5l ones 3.0l or 3.2l the engine work you would have to do for the performance numbers of the m3 with an 325 engine is probably more than you would have spent on an m3 all together.
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Old 12-03-2003, 03:42 PM   #3 (permalink)
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if you want big power and are deffinately going the engine swap route look into a S50 engine from a 95 M3. its better all around than the M20 and S14. the US S14 (e30 m3 engine) is a 2.3L and the M20 (325i) is a 2.5L, both can be stroked to higher displacements though.
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Old 12-03-2003, 03:55 PM   #4 (permalink)
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so the 325is motor can be mad fast? wow didnt know i found a 325 is for 800 and i am thinkinh of buying it. would it e a good buy?
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Old 12-03-2003, 04:00 PM   #5 (permalink)
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if you want big power and are deffinately going the engine swap route look into a S50 engine from a 95 M3. its better all around than the M20 and S14. the US S14 (e30 m3 engine) is a 2.3L and the M20 (325i) is a 2.5L, both can be stroked to higher displacements though.
It is true about the s50, i never excluded the s50, but what only worries me is that the pricing (i'm guessing for the whole works, including an obd I conversion, tranny, engine) is probably going to be around 10-15k. As a senior in high school and a college-bound student, i dont have the money, time and patience to do something like that (you never know, maybe i do...cuz we're all looking for a car that bones out right?). Am i right about the pricing on the s50 tho? lemme know.

also, i'm still considering the s14 engine as well as the m20 engine....only because i figure it will be cheaper and i STILL weill be able to perform well. Also :

Quote:
the m3 is a better engine, you might as well spend the extra cash on it, more room to improve on an already improved engine, ones 2.5l ones 3.0l or 3.2l the engine work you would have to do for the performance numbers of the m3 with an 325 engine is probably more than you would have spent on an m3 all together.
i dont believe that is necessarily true, because from what i said earlier, the only disadvantage the s14 engine has over the m20 is the gearing. All a person would need to do is change their ratio to the same as the m3 and you will fairly beat it on a straightaway (compared to stock s14), although your top-end power would not be as great compared to s14 engine. So there ARE some advantages and disadvantages the m20 engine has, so i wouldn't be so quick to make that call.




Also, can someone tell me the pricing on s14 swaps, as well as the m20? Or even an m50 and/or s50 swap? :wink


thanks in advances




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Old 12-03-2003, 04:03 PM   #6 (permalink)
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so the 325is motor can be mad fast? wow didnt know i found a 325 is for 800 and i am thinkinh of buying it. would it e a good buy?
i wouldn't say mad fast, but check out this article....i was scoping out bmwe30.net and stumbled upon this topic:

325is vs. m3?
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Old 12-04-2003, 07:39 AM   #7 (permalink)
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the S14 is a better than the M20, its not just becuase of gearing. the 325is has a 3.73:1 final drive ratio and the M3 has a 4.10:1, but if you put a 4.10:1 in a 325is it wouldnt necessarily be faster than the S14, as the it does have a 20-25hp advantage and could slaughter a M20 above 4500rpm.

you can usually find a engine/tranny combo when looking for a S50, and it wouldnt 10-15k just for parts, probably around 6-9k. S14's are hard to find, and if you find one in great condition it could cost more than the S50, plus just because it came out of a E30 doesnt mean it will be less complicated to install than a S50. i think your best bet is to rebuild your current engine into a 2.8 or 3.0L stroker, which could turn out more powerful than a stock S14, and wont require any other modifications to the car in order to install it
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Old 12-04-2003, 09:39 AM   #8 (permalink)
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indeed, i could do that with my engine, but i'm at the point where rebuilding my current engine will not satisfy my needs for power/performance. Thanks for the tidbit on the s50 engines, i hope it is around 6-9k because that's a price i could deal with (will take me about 1-2 years saving up that money ). Plus, i would need to find a reliable and trustworthy mechanic to do such a job.


Anyone know a good mechanic that is experienced in these swaps, also that is reliable and trustworthy, particularly in the Souther California/Los Angeles area???




thanks in advance





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Old 12-04-2003, 12:25 PM   #9 (permalink)
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do a 2.7i.... ei, buy an m20b25 (325i engine) and COMBINE it with your eta engine (m20b27)... it'll make for a 2.7 liter m20 w/ about as much HP as a stock s-14, but more torque...

here's what i'm hoping do to in the spring/summer

find a 325i beater car for cheap... pull the entire engine... from the airbox to the exhaust tips.... as well as the wiring harness & ECU

rebuild that m20b25 w/ the addition of your 2.7L ETA crank, eta connecting rods and either Super Eta or Euro Eta pistons. install that allong w/ all the electronics (ecu & wiring harness) into your car... oila, ~190hp & 210-220 ft/lbs of tq

http://www.strictlyeta.net will have even more info about modding the m20 (Fred Kim took what i said above a step further & did a 1mm overbore & custom pistons for a 2.8i)
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Old 12-04-2003, 02:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1985bmw325e@Dec 3 2003, 04:40 PM
Quote:
if you want big power and are deffinately going the engine swap route look into a S50 engine from a 95 M3. its better all around than the M20 and S14. the US S14 (e30 m3 engine) is a 2.3L and the M20 (325i) is a 2.5L, both can be stroked to higher displacements though.
It is true about the s50, i never excluded the s50, but what only worries me is that the pricing (i'm guessing for the whole works, including an obd I conversion, tranny, engine) is probably going to be around 10-15k. As a senior in high school and a college-bound student, i dont have the money, time and patience to do something like that (you never know, maybe i do...cuz we're all looking for a car that bones out right?). Am i right about the pricing on the s50 tho? lemme know.

also, i'm still considering the s14 engine as well as the m20 engine....only because i figure it will be cheaper and i STILL weill be able to perform well. Also :

Quote:
the m3 is a better engine, you might as well spend the extra cash on it, more room to improve on an already improved engine, ones 2.5l ones 3.0l or 3.2l the engine work you would have to do for the performance numbers of the m3 with an 325 engine is probably more than you would have spent on an m3 all together.
i dont believe that is necessarily true, because from what i said earlier, the only disadvantage the s14 engine has over the m20 is the gearing. All a person would need to do is change their ratio to the same as the m3 and you will fairly beat it on a straightaway (compared to stock s14), although your top-end power would not be as great compared to s14 engine. So there ARE some advantages and disadvantages the m20 engine has, so i wouldn't be so quick to make that call.




Also, can someone tell me the pricing on s14 swaps, as well as the m20? Or even an m50 and/or s50 swap? :wink


thanks in advances




peace
my god im an idiot, lol i was thinking e36 engines. sorry fellas, let mrm3 field this topic hes your man
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Old 12-05-2003, 05:14 AM   #11 (permalink)
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First of all there is more then one m3 and 325i motor. Which were you reffering to? Second, what is your sole goal? I know you said over all and if that is the case then I would go with the e30 325i motor. They have gotten over 400hp out of them. You can squeeze around 1k hp out of an s50 ('95 e36 m3 motor) but it will through off your weight distribution which will in turn affect your handling. So if you truely want something that is best over all. That would be the way to go. 400 hp is more then enough hp for the e30. Now if you just want to go fast and you dont care to much about handling then by all means go with the s50. The big problem with the s14 is $$$. Plus it is only 2.3l where as the e30 325i motor is 2.5l. I havnt seen an s14 with 400hp. I thin the most I have seen or heard of is 300 something hp. Another good thing about the e30 325i motor is it is fairly common, and it is a strong motor. Therefore parts will be less expensive compared to a s14. I hope this helped. Feel free to comment on anything.
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Old 12-05-2003, 05:21 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I have a few more things to add. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasnt the m3 limited so that it could be eligable to race? I mean other wise BMW would have made it a 2.5 or even a 3.0l. Also is the m20 the e36 325i? I thought it was. What is the name of the e30 325i motor? That is the one I was reffering to in my post above.
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Old 12-06-2003, 01:48 PM   #13 (permalink)
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First of all there is more then one m3 and 325i motor. Which were you reffering to? Second, what is your sole goal?
the m3 motor i was talking about is the s14 and the m20b25(correct me if i'm wrong but i believe that is the 325is engine?). As from the previous posts, you guys have persuaded me to single out the s14 engine because of the fact that you guys said that it is an expensive process to maintain an s14. My sole goal is not to just say "forget handling, i want all power" - no. I want my car to handle just as well (preferably even better) as the performance. I dont want a car that has a lot of power but yet can't even harness its power around the apex. Basically i want a car that i can go on closed race tracks and have fun with the car, and not to have a sluggish car that takes turns like a freakin jollopy. So yes, performance and handling is a must, but what i'm concerned more about is performance because engine wise, i pretty much dont know jack.

Quote:
First of all there is more then one m3 and 325i motor. Which were you reffering to? Second, what is your sole goal? I know you said over all and if that is the case then I would go with the e30 325i motor. They have gotten over 400hp out of them. You can squeeze around 1k hp out of an s50 ('95 e36 m3 motor) but it will through off your weight distribution which will in turn affect your handling. So if you truely want something that is best over all. That would be the way to go. 400 hp is more then enough hp for the e30. Now if you just want to go fast and you dont care to much about handling then by all means go with the s50. The big problem with the s14 is $$$. Plus it is only 2.3l where as the e30 325i motor is 2.5l. I havnt seen an s14 with 400hp. I thin the most I have seen or heard of is 300 something hp. Another good thing about the e30 325i motor is it is fairly common, and it is a strong motor. Therefore parts will be less expensive compared to a s14. I hope this helped. Feel free to comment on anything.

I'm also thinking about the s50 motor, it seems like a tempting thing to do. But as whata OreoGaborio has mentioned, finding a good 325i motor and combining with the present motor i have right now. Although, i'm concerned about the pricing of the s50 swap, even if it's really tempting to do. People say it will probably be around 10-14k, others say 6-9k. I dont know who to believe? Any feedback on this topic please will be greatl appreciated.

Also, what would you guys do? swap an e30 325is engine and replace with ETA parts?

Or go with an s50 engine swap?

What seems more practical in use, in the interests of time, money, maintenance, complications, performance, handling?



Thanks in advance




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Old 12-06-2003, 03:41 PM   #14 (permalink)
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a mild 2.7i would cost you like.... 2 grand or less if you did it all yourself
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Old 12-07-2003, 11:32 AM   #15 (permalink)
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there is a company where you can buy just about every bmw car motor made.....ill have to find the link unless someone knows it. It is like bavarian motor exchange or something....
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